Patrick Chan has a new quad, ready to defend title

**SkateFiguring** · 07-21-2011, 10:27 AM

From my compilation of last season's quads, Reynolds, who actually had an injury, attempted 4S in every competition, landing two 4S and one 4S+3T with +GOE. Brezina (+0.29) and Fernandez (-0.43) also landed them at the World Championships which saw many successful quads, including the only successful, and beautiful, quad (4T) from Kozuka whose 2 others received -GOE. Joubert did his best there too, having landed only another one with +GOE all season. (I don't know if he has ever landed a 4S.) I joked about the special ice in Moscow.

I think Florent Amodio and Brian Joubert have also had them ratified.

I don't think Amodio has a quad of any kind ratified. He talks about having 2 quads in practice but, as far as I know, has never even attempted any in competition. His coach Morozov has deemed them not necessary or ready. We might see them in the new season.

I don't think Joubert has a 4S either. Somebody may set me straight.

**Buttercup** · 07-21-2011, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by mskater93

Only 4T and 4S have been ratified. 4T is the most common and typical discussion about who has "the quad" references this jump. 4S was first landed by Tim Goebel and then Miki Ando. I think Florent Amodio and Brian Joubert have also had them ratified.

Brian Joubert landed a 4S at 2006 CoR (the last time a skater did a 3-quad LP) but not since; he popped a couple of attempts later on and eventually said he'd focus on doing two 4Ts in his LP, an ambition that was derailed by his knee injury last season - he last did two at 2010 Worlds, IIRC. I think Amodio has landed 4S in practice and possible nationally, but I can't remember him doing so in international competition.

As noted in this thread and elsewhere, Michal Brezina, Javier Fernandez, and Kevin Reynolds have all landed 4S, with Reynolds the only skater to do so more or less consistently in recent years. According to this Wikipedia entry (short on references in some cases, unfortunately), the retired skaters who have landed 4S are Ilia Klimkin, Min Zhang and Timothy Goebel.

Hard to believe that after the Olympics the outlook for quads in competition seemed so discouraging, isn't it? It's good to see so many skaters working on, attempting, and landing quads.

ETA: Amodio has attempted 4S both at French Nats and the French Masters, but as far as I can tell, he received -GOE each time.

**SkateFiguring** · 07-21-2011, 12:54 PM

Amodio's LP protocol from the French Nationals is strange. His 4S received -2 GOE from all judeges but the overall deduction is -3.20 with no apparent calls from the TP.

Ooops, that's from 2009 and jumps also had different BV.

Here's 2010 protocol, no quads from Amodio and Joubert, who had a 4T+2t in the SP with -1.33. Besseghier and Preaubert did try 4T in the LP with different results.

Ooops again for missing the link, now provided.

**Buttercup** · 07-21-2011, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by SkateFiguring

Amodio's LP protocol from the French Nationals is strange. His 4S received -2 GOE from all judeges but the overall deduction is -3.20 with no apparent calls from the TP.

Not at all strange. Quad GOEs were different at the time: +GOEs were worth one point but -GOEs were worth 1.6 points. So -2 from the judges translates to -3.2, and -3 was -4.8. Here's a sample protocol - scroll down to Jeremy Abbott's scores and you can see it.

I think changing the values so that +/-GOEs are the same is one of the factors that has contributed to the quad resurgence.

**jettasian** · 07-21-2011, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

Patrick hasn't had 4F yet, jettasian. People were just saying that with the way he was jumping 3F, he could easily do 4F.

Patrick is an exciting skater. With the speed like this, I won't be surprised if he has 3 kinds of quads and 4 quads in total in one competition by Sochi.

Well, if that's the case then why not try the 4F instead of 4S? Besides 4F is worth more than 4S. Besides, if he can do 4F, he will be the first, right? I don't see his logic to try 4S instead of 4F.

**mskater93** · 07-22-2011, 10:37 AM

The mechanics of A, T, and S are *similar* from a transition from one side to the other, so they must have worked out an easy way for him to transfer technique from 4T to 4S and it worked right away. Also, it will take longer to determine the biomechanics of the 4F simply because no one has done one yet.

**Bluebonnet** · 07-22-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by jettasian

Well, if that's the case then why not try the 4F instead of 4S? Besides 4F is worth more than 4S. Besides, if he can do 4F, he will be the first, right? I don't see his logic to try 4S instead of 4F.

I'm quite sure he's working on 4F. I don't think he's planning to have 4S first, and 4F second. Whichever comes first, will be welcomed. To his own delight and surprise, he got 4S on the first try, so...

**pohatta** · 07-22-2011, 04:51 PM

Frédéric Dambier landed quite a few quad salchows in both sp and lp. Here's one of him doing a 4s-3t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vKQgnrQoSU

**janetfan** · 07-22-2011, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

I'm quite sure he's working on 4F. I don't think he's planning to have 4S first, and 4F second. Whichever comes first, will be welcomed. To his own delight and surprise, he got 4S on the first try, so...

Regarding your dreamy delight I have no doubt.

The rest of us will wait to see it happen. So far we have seen a 4t. This talk about 4S and 4F is just TALK.

BTW, some of us remember Tim's 4S.

That was not done in practice but on Olympic ice.

The day I learned about sports that was quite a difference, no?

**ImaginaryPogue** · 07-22-2011, 08:10 PM

Nothing wrong with a little dreaming.

**janetfan** · 07-22-2011, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue

Nothing wrong with a little dreaming.

I agree and still hope Patrick will master the 3A. Without it he can never be cosnidered as one of the all-time great skaters,

Most of us know that 20-30% of his scores are gifted by Lori's lobbying.

I hope he can show it without all the lobbying and politics.

Before all the nonsense about imaginary quads he nees to show a solid 3A.

Maybe this season.

And don't forget as we get closer to Sochi the Russians will spend as much as it takes to bring Patrick down.

Is Canada willing to spend what it takes for Patrick to win Gold on Russian ice in 2014??