Obviously I'm not intelligent enough to know that quad is not one of the most point-grabbing element and not worth lobbying, and it's not important enough to be included in your "lobbying" claim.
Originally Posted by Hernando
Just wondering, has your newestly crowned Olympic gold medalist benefited in any way from this "Canadian lobbying"?
It's a pageant which you loved and cared so much.
Originally Posted by Hernando
leave no stone unturned
No I didnt want to say ubers, I dont like the use of this word.
Originally Posted by fscric
Off the ice
I think Lori Nichol should not put herself in a position where there's an appearance of impropriety. To me, that means she can either train judges or train skaters, but not both. Her doing so is especially unfortunate since Patrick Chan, as well as some of Lori's choreo clients, have the talent to succeed on their own - but her involvement behind the scenes makes it appear like there's an unfair advantage.
Re Chan being criticized unfairly by people who dislike him/his skating (and I use "him" and not just "his skating" because some of it is personal and way out of line), I don't feel he has been singled out more than Plushenko, Lysacek or Joubert, to name a few (I can think of examples in other disciplines, too). IMO, his skating and programs are fair game, as are any comments he makes on the record, and he has made some pretty unpleasant ones over the years (not recently, as far as I can tell). And lest I be accused of hypocrisy, the same goes for any skater, including ones I like more than Patrick Chan. Of course, some things are just nasty and should never see the light of day, or that of a computer screen. IP's example being one such case.
As for whether or not Chan could have been expected to benefit from the changes to the value of the quad, my recollection is that he had a practice quad in 2009 (which had its own thread here) and tried it at 2009 Liberty. He also stated his intention to start including quads in his programs at the 2010 Worlds press conference, though at the time he said he would likely do so only in the LP. I give him credit for walking his talk and then some in this regard.
Finally, Seniorita helpfully tried to clarify my previous post, but just to make it absolutely clear, I have no problem with people who enjoy Patrick's skating and want to share their opinions of his strengths or their happiness when he succeeds. But I do feel that in some cases this crosses the line into excessive gushing and even trashing of other skaters, and for non-fans or on-the-fence people, this can result in the opposite effect of what was intended.
Strawberry ice cream? Really?
Last edited by Buttercup; 07-24-2011 at 12:41 PM.
leave no stone unturned
^I wanted to write peanut instead but I couldnt remember how to spell it, ok?
Everyone knows that *chocolate* is the best ice cream of all.
Seriously, though...I do worry a bit when someone responsible for coaching a competing skater is also coaching judges. It does create the appearance of impropriety, though the person involved might be completely innocent. But I'm wondering what the solution is, because the most knowledgeable people in skating are frequently the coaches most in demand. Skating isn't a community with a huge population of top-flight people. It's not like, for example, academia, where there are oodles and oodles of experts on any given subject. So what do we do? I'm not arguing--I'd just like to hear everyone's ideas.
I also loved Sandra Bezic's choreography. Stars on Ice was lucky to have her. To this day, that duet she designed for Gordeyeva and Kulik is near the top of my Forever list. And I'm so glad to see a Chen Lu fan stand up and cheer for her. She's one of the greats of our time. Lucky you, to have seen her live!
Well, China's a big, geographically and culturally diverse country. There are a lot of areas in China where skating isn't yet relevant to people, partly (this is just a guess) because it's so alien to their climate--like looking for ice hockey fanatics in Arizona. It'll take time. But skating is taking hold in East Asia, especially in Japan and Korea. I think that's a big plus for the future of skating worldwide. Thank goodness, because it's sure not making much of a splash in the U.S.
I also suspect that Russia is going to become more skating-mad again as Sochi approaches. So even with Cinquanta, we may make some progress in the near future.
As for gelato...not so easy to find details on a fast google, but it's supposedly lower in calories than ice cream, which may mean it has less cream and more milk. It is a milk-based concoction, though, unlike sorbet, which is just fruit (or whatever) and sweetener such as sugar.
can't come down to Earth
Thankyou for the best and most informative post of the day
Originally Posted by prettykeys
I am still new to this forum and I'm not a high lever skater. I am however, a former pro dancer, choreographer and now judge at major competitions. I don't know how much involvement Lori has with the judging community but, if she's anything more than casual friends with any judge on any panel, she would be ineligible to coach for an active group on our Circuit. For those who know, I have another skating question.
Is there a Rules and Ethics Manual for Figure Skating Judges ? In my Association, we are given a Rules and Ethics Manual to read and then sign forms which state. Any violation of these terms is cause for immediate dismissal. Judges may not begin the " Recertification " process for 2 years from the date of the infraction
I may be reading too much into this but, it sounds like Lori is in violation of what we call an
" Affiliation Violation. "
This rule basically states : If a judge a has choreographed, consulted, raised funds, or is related to anyone involved with a group, they are " Affiliated " and may NOT continue to attend any non-public judging activities and are barred from the association for 2 years.
It also mentions that in order to begin Training to become a judge. All applicants must be without an affiliation beyond that of a consultant ( Less than 3 visits to any program ) for 2 years.
" Baseless accusations ? " " Is it baseless to know that Lori runs seminars for ISU judges, and is very influential. "
" It doesn't mean Lori is a cheat but it does mean ISU is still a very tacky organization that puts up with conflict of interests in ways other sports would never dream of. "
I hope there's more detail about these " Seminars " because if these statements are true, Lori is a "cheat" and something should said. Of course, if there's no rule, than nevermind.
If someone with real knowledge about the rules, can expand a bit about what Hernando has said I would really appreciate it.
Last edited by backhand45; 07-24-2011 at 07:05 PM.
These rules seem to apply to judges. Lori Nichol is not a judge.
Originally Posted by backhand45
Possibly the judges who attend the ISU seminars in which coaches and choreographers give presentations are in violation of these rules?
Last edited by Mathman; 07-24-2011 at 07:42 PM.
If anyone is curious, here is the ISU document on Conflicts of Interest.
(Click on Communication 1481.) The provisions and examples given are usually brought up in connection with situations like Valetin Piseev and Alla Shekhovtseva.
As I recall the early days of the CoP, I read that Buttle routines were used by Dore to explain the way the PC scores should be judged. There were always high scores for Buttle from then on.
Really, no experts in any areas of skating should be consulted and associated with ISU in any way. No actual skating of actual skaters should be used as illustrations. They should only lurk on forums to educate themselves about all aspects of skating.
Congratulations to Hernando for being the first one to come up with the hook to strip Patrick Chan of his WC title. I knew sooner or later, such repeal will be proposed so Hernando gets the prize of being the first. Should there be a thread to collect proposals of various ways to accomplish this? There may be other even more innovative or expedient ideas.
If nothing else, Chan's title should be and will be cheapened. Yey.
Just want to be informed, when did this "infamous" Lori's seminar take place? Was that after she was pointed temporarily to be Patrick's coach or before?