To me Weir says what suits his situation at the time, very self justifying, self promoting, and always faulting others. He is against the judging only after he stopped winning. CoP exposes weaknesses. Only the best and the most rounded skaters shine. Don't Lambiel and Takahashi skate beautifully and expressively even with the constraints of the competition rules and the judging system? Weir often watered down his competition choreographies because he could not do both footwork and jumps in the same program.
Weir reminds me of a woman I used to know who was a housewife and who constantly berated her daughter-in-law and picked on her housekeeping whereas the young lady was very intelligent and successful in her career. (And very respectful and considerate toward the MIL, seemingly obivious of her constant criticism and complaints to others. She came from a different culture.)
Weir should orgainize his own shows and hire ordinary skaters to do Vegas style extravaganzas with outrageous makeup, costumes and staging. Instead of real skating skills required in competitions, or old fashioned Disney or Ice Capades productions, his talents may be used to break into a new market.
Or maybe Joubert or even Plushenko?
I think alot of male skaters lack what in my culture is considered good sportsmanship.
I recall Patrick trying to trash talk Plushy before Vancouver and then we saw Plushy wipe the ice with Chan like he was little more than a cheap rag one might us to wash their car.
I always use a Dallas Cowboys football jersey to wash my car as I can't stand that team
Show me how Chan trash talked Plushenko?
Johnny belong to a sport that has aspect of artistry, beauty pageantry and showbiz, as such he is who he is or has become.
Figure skating is beauty on ice, and as such - artistry should be valued and technical bravado should be complementary to enhance beauty rather than dominate and overwhelms it, which it has now become. If it is purely about athleticism, let's just remove music, costumes, make up, thematic choreograph program out of of the picture, and forget about musicality, interpretation breakthroughs. The world will be full of Miki Andos, Rachel Flatts in black startrek outfits jumping mediocrely consistently, and there won't be any skating shows. Instead they can perform at the circus; or at ice rink openings; or during the interim act for speed skating sport fairs which seems to be way ISU want it to be.
When judging has blatantly ignore the valuable aspect of artistic skating, he absolutely has the right to speak up. If he doesn't, he is a coward and a victim. Takahashi and Lambiel happens to be 2 of my favorite male skaters but they rarely get proper rewarded for their performance unless someone with a more technical program (that has no soul) fails their attempts.
Interesting idea about the vegas show, and if he could i bet he would, but whether his name is big enough to front a Vagas type of show for the typical US figures skating crowd is a huge question. Overall, having seen some US TV skating shows audience, I feel it is still a rather conservative older audience. To inject dynamism to the sport for a wider demographic audience, something need to be done to boost the 'figure skating industry in the US'. I don't think Johnny is the solution, but he could be part of a solution.
Fair enough and we can agree to disagree.
I like Patrick, don't always mind his bragging as skating can be a dull scene at times and a little "personality" is better than nothing.
Since winning the WC Chan has conducted himself pretty well and just hoping his ubers will follow his lead.
I know Sandu fans hold a parade every year for annivesary of that Grand Prix Final he beated Plushy.
about the words "fight like a dog",I use it not only because other version of the interview is written like that word by word,but also because Johnny's interviews before,for example:
I think he may say the same thing like that,so I use this word.http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...kater-olympics
"Evgeny is a very different person than me,'' Weir said. "He will fight like a dog for medals, which is also something I admired in Evan.
"I was more about performance than points. I'm more artist-athlete than athlete-artist. I would want to come back and make people cheer and cry. I missed my chance at a medal in 2006; that was my time to shine. Maybe if I came back without that pressure, I could just enjoy the journey.''
AND once again:I don't find "fight like a dog" on my dictionary,is it really a phrase??
I find Weir's 'I'm more artist-athlete than athlete-artist' laughable, if Takahashi and Lambiel, both of whom are lauded as having both artistic and athletic abilities, could succeed under CoP, Weir's failure to do so is his own problem, I hope he would stop putting blame on everything but himself and really ask himself if he wanted to come back for another try at the next Olympics like he said in one of the interviews, if he really wanted to do so, put in the effort. Everybody can talk large, but only talk will get him nowhere.
Last edited by fscric; 07-24-2011 at 03:18 AM.
well,SkateFiguring,maybe you don't know,but after the Olympics,many journalists become Johnny stan because of the Poker Face pro,I don't know why,but PF's videos floating through the internet during that time in an unuaral way,though it acually the version in 2009 summer ice shows...and you know,Patrick Chan got 5th on Olympics,and Johnny got 6th,so he can't performance Lady Gaga's Poker Face on Olympics gala.All the Johnny fans were so angry about that(including me),cause if he did,he may got more frame from that.so all the fans including me kept attacking Chan for that,but use different reasons.(he hadn't a Quad,he said you don't need quads to win Olympics,etc...)and as I said before,some Johnny stans who are journalists were members of us too.They did the "revenge" in a different way,like change the words of Chan's interviews or add some,you know,lauguage is like an ART.you can easily change the meaning,not to say they add many things he've never said before...now you know why?
then,SkateFiguring,I can understand Hernando,cause I once did as her,attack Chan whatever he did whatever he said.At this time,whatever you said and whatever you showed the evidence is useless.you two should stop argueing,and let time show it.
Why I stop doing it?cause as time pass by,I finally notice Lady Gaga isn't a good thing for Johnny.It has become a CAGE,a ghost around him.People just see him as a over the top dressed,heavy make-up,feminine entertainer...He got the frame,but lost his sportsmanship.I'm sad.For me,I would rather choose the past years,when his skating is glory and beautiful,although he never got this kind of weird response from the audience.BUT now they cheer for him like watching a joker in the circus,not a skater...Those show organizers and jounalists shout "we love Johnny Weir",but they only promote him as "lady gaga on ice" to attrack attention(the result you have seen,many people can't say the different from Poker Face and Bad Romance,and they even think Poker Face ifs his Long Program on 2010 Olympics,and banned by NBC and CCTV...).if Johnny really skated Poker Face on Olympic gala,maybe he can be more famous,but more far from what I love,so now I thank Chan...
IMO,If Johnny really wants to be unique like he said,he need to leave Lady gaga,and find his way,create a number which can be received by all the audience and make them crazy,not just a copy of ladygaga.
Last edited by LuCN; 07-24-2011 at 03:26 AM.
Thank you so much for your honesty, LuCN. The media really had a big hand in creating and presenting a false image of Patrick Chan. I'm a little surprised at how personal it was in China but I believe it wasn't quite as personal in N America. The media here just wanted a good story to sell, which almost always means a controversy and polarization, some kind of a fight between two characters even if they have to creat all this, including the characters/roles. Patrick was well loved in Canada and by the few media personalities who reported on skating. So he was used to just be himself and very open with these skating media people. But during the Olympics, it was a whole different crowd of journalists and a whole different agenda they brought with them. Young and inexperienced and under tremendous pressure, Patrick got played. The media left after the Olympics and they don't give a damn what they did to him or anybody. But they had supplied fuel to those who disliked Patrick for other reasons, Joubert's, Weir's and Plushenko's fans in particular. These skaters have special status and extremely devoted fans!
I used to just watch skating that was shown on Canadian TV and I wasn't particularly familiar with American skaters but the first time I saw Johnny, I liked him and his skating right away. I found him appealing and special. I posted about him on a skating thread in a non skating forum during the Olympics, reporting humourous anedotes, but when asked about his podium chances, I said he might have a remote chance for a spot but the OGM was completely out of the question because his program was way too simple and devoid of difficult transitions. It was a known fact and logical conclusion. I wasn't impressed with his manipulative and dishonest complaints to rile up his fans after the competition. As time passed, I became more and more turned off as I got to know more about him, finding him very petty and his fight with Lysacek quite catty. I didn't like Lysacek's role in it either. I don't care about Johnny's sexuality or how he dresses, but his personality I find more and more to my distaste, but it's no big deal. I don't get strongly negative about people. But sticking to skating, I just can't support his constant griping and never accounting for himself. As of now, his skating skills seem to have fallen so far below the elite, not even as good as some of the American Juniors. But he talks like it's the system and the judges and it's up to him if he wishes to compete at the Sochi Olympics. Yeah right, with the depth of US talents and all the new comers, he gets to call the shot? It's all talk and he knows it so he burns all the bridges. Well why not? More excuses and blaming others for what he knows he can't attain.
Chan is a contrast. He lets the haters hate, offering no excuses, complaints, or appealing to them. He brings it with real talents, dedication to his sport, and constant learning and looking at himself and what he can do to be better. I am proud to be his fan and joined the forum at the height of Chan bashing. So I am not afraid of a good fight. But don't worry about me and Hernando. He just likes to pick fights sometimes and thinks it's fun. I can play.
*Gasp*... admitting conspiracy and propaganda on Golden skate!! The things you learn!
I have always thought Patrick got unfair rap on skating forums. He minced these words when he was 19.
To be fair, guys tends to mature later than girls at age, which probably means has a mental age of an excited 16 years old. Coming from a Hongkong heritage, raised in French plus being a single child who's also an over achiever - a boy in an Asian family makes blunt speaking and being a bit spoilt highly likely - all spells trouble for a media publicist. But then I was even more surprised by the 'over reaction' against this kid from adults on skating forums. So glad for his WC2011 gold that is the greatest 'exoneration' of all.
PS. LuCN, thanks for clearing up about that quote 'fight like a dog'. Not very flattering words I must say from Johnny.
Last edited by os168; 07-24-2011 at 05:29 AM.
oh,well,don't misunderstand me SkateFiguring,I said this as a fan.I'm sorry for the reality.(I don't know how to say it in English but since you know Chinese,then "恨铁不成钢" is exactly my feeling about him) BUT it doesn't mean I think Johnny shouldn't say this.Everybody can critics ISU and the system whether he can skate or not,whether he skates good or bad.
For me,at least I agree to him on two points:
1、Plushenko is just a fighter for medals.YES he has been a legend,BUT his competition pros after 2006 is just too casual.I love his skating on exhibitions,but not on competitions.if a legend just count the medals,then he surely is,but don't forget figure skating related with ART in many languages.I'm glad Plushenko and Lysacek come back,and bring much attention to figure skating,but I really hope they don't just consider the medals,and come back with something new and beautiful to the skating world...
2、all the judge system has its good and weakness,COP is too.it should improve. YES,actually Johnny got a lot from COP,without it,he'll never have chance to get the medals in the senior worlds while lack of QUAD.BUT,it doesn't mean he can't say COP did something wrong and should change. you've mention Daisuka and Lambiel,yes they are very good,but they didn't always win when compete with Plushenko or Joubert.
os168,I don't think Chan is special treated.when Johnny and Evan fighted,and more earlier,when Plushenko and Yagudin fighted,their words are more violent,their fans are more energetic.It's not about the age and what they exactly said.When they are the top ones,the media and the fans become excited and begin to do this kind of things.and Chan isn't a tranditional boy from the westerworld,he's a emigrant,an Ansian.when Daisuka first come to our eyes,many people attack him of lack of beauty and artisty and weird too.Maybe you don't know or can't remember,BUT I know what the experts and most skating forum bashed Plushenko so hard after the 2006 Olympics,some of them even discribe his pros as a RUBISH.AND the same amount of people make him as a LENGEND after 2010 Olympics,really sarcastic,right?this time,the "bad guy" is Evan.and after he retired,Chan become the next "bad guy". when Patrick got more fans,the bash will become a fight between fans,and then maybe he will be the next Plushenko.from a bad guy to a lengend,maybe he will be nothing.
generally speaking,what happend now is just normal IMO.
Last edited by LuCN; 07-24-2011 at 06:32 AM.