Fluffs and Image in the 21st Century

janetfan · Aug 1, 2011

I came across this over at AJ's blog this morning and it not only brought back some memories but got me thinking about the image of skating.

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2011/07/fluff-to-remember.html#comments
scroll up to see the clip

Anyone remember this commercial from the 90's which glorified the "Ice Princess" image.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oygY7Nc-j18

Here is a commercial featuring Mia Hamm from the same era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkjla75mZKQ

Times have changed and women's sports have come a long way since then.

Here is a totally different look at the image of women athletes produced in 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hME3xOIsOKI

I think skating needs to get in step with the times. I don't think the old "Ice Princess" image is any more relevant today than the "Miss America" pageant.

Girls and women don't buy into it any more than boys and men in 21st century America.

We all know "Miss America" does not mean much anymore. Does skating need to share the some fate?

Is it time for a little less of "a young girl and her dream" and a little bit more of "Eye of The Tiger" :think:

Think of the way the remake of "True Grit" resonated with Americans.

Maybe American skating fans are locked in the past.

Nothing wrong with a Princess, puppies and mom's apple pie.

Pageants do live on in the mind of most skating fans but ESPN moved on from that image several years ago.

R.D. · Aug 1, 2011

What about the "pressure makes us" commercial featuring the US women's soccer team?

Actually, I think we ARE moving in that direction in skating, too. Compare ABC's old skating coverage to what we are getting now from NBC. The fluffs are less about shopping and more about training and practice. There are also fewer fluffs in general. For all the flack NBC gets about their "up close and personal" pieces at the Olympics, I remember ABC being a lot worse with their skating coverage. They had Cohen baking cookies and shopping with her sister for goodness' sake. And that had to do with sport how?

Unless you're talking about the mentality of skating fans vs. fans of other women's sports...in which case I do still see an "old-school" mentality in many posters here (and other skating forums) especially when discussing routines. Stuff like costume, hair style, make-up, etc.- you know, pageant talk. In general I see almost as much talk about this stuff as I do about the technical content (jumps, spins, footwork). I think as long as that stupid "Program Component Score" stays as obscure as it is now, "pageant issues" will come into play. Personally, I could care less. But maybe it's because a lot of women like talking about things like that? (and let's face it, vast majority of skating fans are women)

Mathman · Aug 1, 2011

I absolutely agree that this is the reason for the declining popularity of competitive figure skating as a spectator sport in the 21st century. We are just not into Miss America, Ice princesses, and Cinderella going to the ball as much as we once were.

This is how Newsweek packaged Michelle Kwan for the 1998 Olympics.

http://www.ioffer.com/img/item/205/707/988/Z4v9.jpg

And this is how they packaged her in 2002.

http://www.theskatinggallery.com/graphics/MG-108.jpg

The times, they are a-changing.

janetfan · Aug 1, 2011

Mathman said:
I absolutely agree that this is the reason for the declining popularity of competitive figure skating as a spectator sport in the 21st century. We are just not into Miss America, Ice princesses, and Cinderella going to the ball as much as we once were.

This is how Newsweek packaged Michelle Kwan for the 1998 Olympics.

http://www.ioffer.com/img/item/205/707/988/Z4v9.jpg

And this is how they packaged her in 2002.

http://www.theskatinggallery.com/graphics/MG-108.jpg

The times, they are a-changing.

Good example mathman.

But here we are a decade later and from what I see US Skating doesn't have a clue about packaging figure skating to the public.

It doesn't help that we are stuck with an incomprehensible scoring system (hoping gkelly is sleeping )
But if we are honest the American public knew as little about 6.0, school figures and ordinals as they do about the CoP.

So why are other sports booming?

US Women's Natl Team soccer player Alex Morgan is burning up the internet.

Abby and Hope appeared on Letterman and teased him mercilessly about not knowing the rules of soccer very well.
That would be true for the majority of Americans and yet the Women's World Cup broke TV ratings records.

Every minute of every game in the tournamnet was broadcast LIVE on ESPN along with hours and hours of pre-game and post-game commentary and analysis.

I am talking about alot of broadcast hours here and many, the majority actually, were games that did not involve Team USA.

A three week tournament in soccer is a much heavier time committment than a two day GP or four day Worlds event.

So why has skating lost out? Why was there no TV or even an internet stream of 4CC last season?

RD mentioned the "Pressure Makes us" Women's Soccer commercials and last time I counted Nike made 12 different versions of it for US Women's soccer this year.

Can we even find 12 skating commercials in six years let alone in one year? I don't think so....

Rising star Alex Morgan has 210,000 followers on Twitter. She just graduated from Cal-Berkely and is the youngest and newest member of Team USA. She was unknown a few months ago but has received over a thousand marriage proposals.

Alex is cute, some say as pretty as a model but what guys love about her is that she is FAST and athletic and has a knack for scoring goals.
Her nickname is "Baby horse" because she is the fastest player on the team.

To be honest I can't imagine Rachael, Mirai or Alissa being the fastest on any team let alone the Natl Women's soccer team. Well maybe Mirai is fast

There are athletes and real sport and then there are skating pageants. Image and how skating is presented is what the public perceives it to be.

US Skating has alot of work to do just to hopefully maintain the minor presence they have now.

Olympia · Aug 1, 2011

I think you're all making some good points.

One thing you mentioned in passing, though, Hernando, points out a handicap that skating has in terms of possible sponsors. You said that the soccer players have been featured in several commercials by Nike, a company that traditionally has deep pockets and great style when it comes to putting athletes out there.

Alas, skating doesn't use any kind of sport shoes. It uses skates. And companies that sell elite-level skates don't have much of a chance of marketing their product to the general public.

But there are certainly other corporations that could make use of skaters in great ad campaigns. And it's a great thought to emphasize skaters' power rather than their sequins.

I have to point out, though, this is actually not a bad time for princesses and their ilk. I spend a lot of time looking in bookstores for work-related stuff, and in the teen section of the children's book department, the books that don't have glamorous vampires on the cover very frequently feature a glamorous teenager in an opulent ballgown (modern style). Then there are shows such as America's Next Top Model and several hairstyling "makeover" shows. The glittery, romantic aspect of skating could actually be successfully exploited if people got a skillful publicity person working on it, especially with skaters like Alissa, YuNa, Mao, and Joannie.

I'm not saying that this should be the exclusive approach to take! I like the idea of using skating's athleticism. I'm just thinking that maybe this aspect of skating is still relevant if used cleverly.

gkelly · Aug 1, 2011

What if USFigureSkating has one idea about how they want to market the sport to the general public, and the TV networks have a completely different idea?

And various sponsors each have their own idea as well as to how best to tie skating into their particular product and marketing strategy?

janetfan · Aug 1, 2011

gkelly said:
What if USFigureSkating has one idea about how they want to market the sport to the general public, and the TV networks have a completely different idea?

And various sponsors each have their own idea as well as to how best to tie skating into their particular product and marketing strategy?

Then we have a situation similar to what we see in our government right now. The Republicans have one vision, the Democrats something different and the President, who could be dictating policy has chosen not too.

In short, and regardless of our politics we are seeing something ineffective.

janetfan · Aug 1, 2011

Olympia said:
I think you're all making some good points.

One thing you mentioned in passing, though, Hernando, points out a handicap that skating has in terms of possible sponsors. You said that the soccer players have been featured in several commercials by Nike, a company that traditionally has deep pockets and great style when it comes to putting athletes out there.

Alas, skating doesn't use any kind of sport shoes. It uses skates. And companies that sell elite-level skates don't have much of a chance of marketing their product to the general public.

But there are certainly other corporations that could make use of skaters in great ad campaigns. And it's a great thought to emphasize skaters' power rather than their sequins.

I have to point out, though, this is actually not a bad time for princesses and their ilk. I spend a lot of time looking in bookstores for work-related stuff, and in the teen section of the children's book department, the books that don't have glamorous vampires on the cover very frequently feature a glamorous teenager in an opulent ballgown (modern style). Then there are shows such as America's Next Top Model and several hairstyling "makeover" shows. The glittery, romantic aspect of skating could actually be successfully exploited if people got a skillful publicity person working on it, especially with skaters like Alissa, YuNa, Mao, and Joannie.

I'm not saying that this should be the exclusive approach to take! I like the idea of using skating's athleticism. I'm just thinking that maybe this aspect of skating is still relevant if used cleverly.

Actually Yuna is sponsored by Nike and they have made many commericals featuring her for the Korean market.
Check out Yuna at any skating event and you will see her wearing Nike warmup clothing without fail.

Care to guess if Nike has sold some women's sportswear in Korea :think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_oVvUwuJF8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cmDanJx3dE&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cJXMEHbLdY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Myy5hnw3U&feature=related

silverpond · Aug 1, 2011

Many of us can remember back when the female skaters who won the Olympic gold medal were regarded as "America's sweetheart". Dorothy Hamill always comes to mind, and she enjoyed a 12-year reign as the #1 American woman skater, in terms of OGM, as she won in 1976, and it wasn't until 1992 that another American woman, Kristi Yamaguchi, won the Olympic gold medal.

The televised introduction to the US Nationals, for the ladies long program, typically featured a rather cutsey montage of music boxes, ballerinas, stuffed animals, and all sorts of 'fluff' that had zilch to do with the competitive sport of figure skating. There is nothing fragile or "cute" about a young woman who gets up at 5 am, trains at the rink and at the gym, day after day, year after year. It's a long, hard haul, and not particularly glamorous. The four-minute long program and thunderous audience applause is backed up by thousands of hours of very hard, persistent work.

One segment on Tara Lapinski had me almost in hysterics. With all due respect to Ms. Lapiniski, the segment of her jumping around on the roof of her house with a friend, and then speaking a "secret language" to the same pal, was just plain nutty, IMHO.

How many times have we seen the champion skaters shopping, baking brownies, and diligently doing their homework? Enough, please.

We are past the days when Miss America brought in huge television ratings. In my opinion, ladies figure skating is a SPORT, not a beauty pageant. Certainly, the skaters want to look their best, but having a gorgeous face & figure will not cut it if the skaters lack the technical skills.

Just my two cents.

R.D. · Aug 1, 2011

silverpond said:
We are past the days when Miss America brought in huge television ratings. In my opinion, ladies figure skating is a SPORT, not a beauty pageant. Certainly, the skaters want to look their best, but having a gorgeous face & figure will not cut it if the skaters lack the technical skills.

The TV networks should start covering it like one then.

And, frankly, the fans should discuss it like one as well.

janetfan · Aug 1, 2011

Do costumes worn by skaters enhance the image of figure skating as a sport or do they delegitimize it?

Here is an article from ESPN discssing this.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/caple/100217

From the article:
"I don't understand this business about how figure skating "blends sports and art." If it's a sport, it's a sport. If it's about "interpreting the music" or other nonathletic issues, that has nothing to do with sports.
Yes, it might be a competition, but so is the Pillsbury Bake-Off. And it might be athletic, but so is ballet. To be a sport, it has to be an athletic competition scored by objectively quantifiable means (most points, fastest time, farthest distance, etc.).

All this other stuff about "artistic merits" and "interpreting the music" isn't sports -- that's theater (which, again, is the realm of costumes). Now, theater can be plenty entertaining, but that doesn't make it a sport.

So if you're arguing in favor of figure skating costumes because they enhance the theatrical experience, what you're really saying is figure skating isn't a sport. And I'm inclined to agree with you there. Why don't they make Olympic figure skating an exhibition, like the Ice Capades, and get it over with? That's what it's basically become."

dorispulaski · Aug 1, 2011

Indeed.

To quote this morning's Cryptoquote:

"It is amazing how complete is the delusion that beauty is goodness." -Leo Tolstoy

Mathman · Aug 1, 2011

I guess I am the only one that does not see any particular merit in making figure skating more like a sport. There are plenty of sports that are more like a sport. If it is sports that we want, we have a hundred to choose from; we don't need 100 plus one.

The idea of marketing figure skating as a sport has been tried over and over. How many times have we heard "they revolve 1440 degrees in the air and land on an eighth of an inch blade!" "A quad is harder than hitting a home run in baseball, more athletic than dunking a basketball!!" The public says, OK, whatever, when does the NASCAR race start.

I don't understand this business about how figure skating "blends sports and art." If it's a sport, it's a sport. If it's about "interpreting the music" or other nonathletic issues, that has nothing to do with sports.

I totally disagree with this sentiment. "Blending sport and art" is exactly what figure skating does. I find it incomprehensible that the writers "do not understand" this concept. (I think they are playing dumb on purpose.

)

Landing a quad is the sports part, interpreting the music is the art part. Is that really so hard for the writers to wrap their minds around?

Think of it this way. Suppose we asked people at random three questions.

1. Name a sport. (No one would say figure skating.0

2. Name an art form (No one would say figure skating.)

3. Name an activity that combines aport and srt. Maybe someone would say "figure skating." :yes:

janetfan · Aug 1, 2011

Mathman said:
I guess I am the only one that does not see any particular merit in making figure skating more like a sport. There are plenty of sports that are more like a sport. If it is sports that we want, we have a hundred to choose from; we don't need 100 plus one.

The idea of marketing figure skating as a sport has been tried over and over. How many times have we heard "they revolve 1440 degrees in the air and land on an eighth of an inch blade!" "A quad is harder than hitting a home run in baseball, more athletic than dunking a basketball!!" The public says, OK, whatever, when does the NASCAR race start.

I totally disagree with this sentiment. "Blending sport and art" is exactly what figure skating does. I find it incomprehensible that the writers "do not understand" this concept. (I think they are playing dumb on purpose. )

Landing a quad is the sports part, interpreting the music is the art part. Is that really so hard for the writers to wrap their minds around?

You are not the only one who likes skating because it is unique and different from other sports.

Let's not forget when the IJS was introduced it was proclaimed by ISU that the new system would help make skating more like other sports.

All I think it did was to make skating less like skating used to be.

I think the writers were having a little fun with skating and costumes.

Once upon a time we did see Scott go for the look the one writer mentions, no?

Mathman · Aug 1, 2011

^ Ah, yes. the blue frog.

Olympia · Aug 1, 2011

silverpond said:
Many of us can remember back when the female skaters who won the Olympic gold medal were regarded as "America's sweetheart". Dorothy Hamill always comes to mind, and she enjoyed a 12-year reign as the #1 American woman skater, in terms of OGM, as she won in 1976, and it wasn't until 1992 that another American woman, Kristi Yamaguchi, won the Olympic gold medal.

The televised introduction to the US Nationals, for the ladies long program, typically featured a rather cutsey montage of music boxes, ballerinas, stuffed animals, and all sorts of 'fluff' that had zilch to do with the competitive sport of figure skating. There is nothing fragile or "cute" about a young woman who gets up at 5 am, trains at the rink and at the gym, day after day, year after year. It's a long, hard haul, and not particularly glamorous. The four-minute long program and thunderous audience applause is backed up by thousands of hours of very hard, persistent work.

One segment on Tara Lapinski had me almost in hysterics. With all due respect to Ms. Lapiniski, the segment of her jumping around on the roof of her house with a friend, and then speaking a "secret language" to the same pal, was just plain nutty, IMHO.

How many times have we seen the champion skaters shopping, baking brownies, and diligently doing their homework? Enough, please.

We are past the days when Miss America brought in huge television ratings. In my opinion, ladies figure skating is a SPORT, not a beauty pageant. Certainly, the skaters want to look their best, but having a gorgeous face & figure will not cut it if the skaters lack the technical skills.

Just my two cents.

I remember that feature with Tara and her secret language! Yeah, I can't imagine someone like soccer champ Mia Hamm being profiled with information like that.

That kind of detail underlines the fact that some skaters are so young they can't even be portrayed as beauty queens. The stuff shown about some of these "ladies" isn't pageant glamor, it's girly paraphernalia--teddy bears, canopy beds, BFF's if they're lucky enough to have an outside life. That's not what most viewers expect of athletes.

I know that nowadays someone as young as Tara can't compete internationally as a senior skater, but we look to girls that age as our future stars, and those are the ones who are positioned to get viewers interested in the skating scene. Well, this just makes it an extra challenge, I guess. After all, that was when many of us discovered Michelle....so it works sometimes.

gkelly · Aug 1, 2011

Hernando said:
I think the writers were having a little fun with skating and costumes.

They're sportswriters writing for an audience of sports fans, so we know which way their bias leans.

Here's another article with dance choreographers' takes on figure skating, to look from the other side of the outside:
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/02/16/dancers_on_figure_skating/index.html

Buttercup · Aug 2, 2011

I watch skating on Eurosport, which doesn't seem to do fluffs at all. The only time I can recall anything approximating a fluff is 2007 Euros, when they had some behind the scenes stuff with Brian Joubert (in a state of undress at times

). And even that was pretty straightforward - his training, his prep, etc. ES doesn't even show extra material during ice resurfacing - just highlights from other parts of the competition or from previous events. I like it - all skating, no frills.

I've seen fluffier fluffs on Youtube, some from news coverage and some from American and Japanese TV. Some of the American fluffs are so over the top and melodramatic (Yags-Plush from SLC is way up there on the unintentional comedy scale). I never could stand the schmaltzy stuff in the NBC coverage back when I lived in the US, and I hear it's gotten worse. Just show the athletes competing! Unless there's a really compelling story, I don't need to know about every hardship an athlete has ever faced. I guess because a lot of the coverage in the US is taped there's more room for this sort of thing?

Skating is both an art and a sport - I remember Jeremy Abbott saying a couple of years ago how he wanted to be both an athlete and and artist, and I think most skaters would agree. That means some people will never take skating seriously; their loss. But I do feel that the main reasons US audiences are not as interested are not CoP, or the image of skating, but 1. the fragmentation of the media market and 2. the lack of a dominant US ladies skater. I don't see what can be done about the first and the second might eventually sort itself out. But it would do the US ladies a world of good if they weren't viewed as the possible new MK when they have some early success; too much pressure and expectations.

As for people having fun with skating costumes, this is as good as it gets :biggrin:

dorispulaski · Aug 2, 2011

Buttercup said:
As for people having fun with skating costumes, this is as good as it gets

Tom and Lorenzo are amazing! They are equal opportunity fashion snarkers though. Skating was just a passing event for them.

Buttercup · Aug 2, 2011

dorispulaski said:
Tom and Lorenzo are amazing! They are equal opportunity fashion snarkers though. Skating was just a passing event for them.

True, but Tom and Lorenzo + skating was just fantastic so I had to share... "I am a fabulous little twirling skeleton", and the rugged American masculinity/stoic Russian masculinity :laugh:

I love TLo and have learned a lot from reading them. It's completely OT for this thread, but I just have to say that the Mad Style posts are incredible, and their Project Runway recaps can be hilarious.

Fluffs and Image in the 21st Century

janetfan

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R.D.

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