Constable , Costume Police
Thanks ,valentine ( it may have been a comment to that effect that I read...can't remember )...But Thomas will turn 21 in April of 2012 , doesn't that age them out for the 2012-2013 competitive yr ? If so, everybody's rules are pushing them.
INTERNATIONAL SKATING UNION
CONSTITUTION and GENERAL REGULATIONS 2010
as accepted by the 53rd Ordinary Congress June 2010
2. Age limits for Single & Pair Skating / Ice Dance
c) in International Junior Competitions and ISU Junior Championships a Junior is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July 1st preceding these Events:
i) has reached at least the age of thirteen (13);
ii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and Men in singles competition; and
iii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and the age of twenty-one (21) for Men in Pair Skating and Ice Dance competition.
2.3 RESTRICTIONS TO ENTRY (Rule 5403)
(1) JUNIOR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS:
SKATE CANADA OFFICIAL RULES AND REGULATIONS (TECHNICAL HANDBOOK)
COMPETITIVE PROGRAM PAGE 5000 - 11
(a) COMPETING IN THE SAME EVENT DISCIPLINE: No one shall compete in the same discipline (Singles, Pairs, Dance) in the same event (Juvenile, Pre-Novice, Novice) at Junior Nationals more than three times.
(b) WINNER OF AN EVENT DISCIPLINE: The winner or the winning pair or dance couple of an event discipline shall not be eligible for the same event discipline again.
I guess this is precisely my point. They are in the best position, besides maybe Hasagawa's, to earn a JW medal. With their JGP assignments, I can't imagine how they'd miss the JGP Final. Placing well internationally as Juniors will matter more in the long-term than where they place in Canada, Junior or Senior, this season. But if they are distracted by having to learn new programs, and both programs would have to change to compete at home, what's the point for just 1 domestic competition? They'd spend all that time and effort and money just to compete 1 competition? That seems like a waste to me. Ranking in Canada matters sort of, especially if you are going to finish top 5, but I have to think that finishing top 5 in the World will not hurt their ranking in Canada, even if they don't compete at Nationals at all. So I guess that's my question. Do they have to compete domestically? Based on winning Junior domestically last year, the fact they still age qualify for Junior internationally, the disadvantages unique to dancers, would they have to compete at home?
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
I just read the restrictions that (Blink) has posted, and its really making me wonder why Skate Canada isn't sending Garret Gosselin (4th at nationals, beautiful skater, has all triples, and has a triple triple combo) and Shaquille Davis (2nd at nationals, great technical ability,has a triple axel,and a triple triple combo). Based on the restrictions their both age eligible for jgp's this year so shouldn't these two guys be on the list without any question with Nam Nyugen, Liam Firus, and Peter O'brien?
"MANDATORY EVENTS: The following events are mandatory for all Skate Canada Sectionals: Men’s Singles, Women’s Singles, Mixed Pair, Mixed Dance in each of the five
classes - Senior, Junior, Novice, Pre-Novice, Juvenile\)
... Competitors who register for Senior events at Skate Canada Sectionals and who have been assigned a Senior Grand Prix or Junior Grand Prix Final event shall be granted an automatic entry into the Senior Canadian Figure Skating Championships event of the same event discipline in the same competitive season.
...BYED SKATERS: Those who have been granted byes through Sectional qualifying events (see (b) above and Byes Policy in Policies and Procedures) may enter their Skate Canada Challenge event or Canadian Figure Skating Championships event (or qualifying round at Canadians) as applicable without further qualification."
Constable , Costume Police
I can't believe this..... re: O/W..
Knowing what we now know..1. they must compete as seniors , if they are to compete at all at Nationals.
2. They are ageing out as Jrs. After Jr World's, they will be inelligible for the next round of JR. competition
3. normally , the Skate Canada cutoff for funding is 5th place at seniors ( I believe)
.. I think it's pretty mean to suggest that they shouldn't try... That they should sit out, lose national ranking ( not due to injury or any other unforeseen event , but, apparently, out of some weird sense of humility or to make sure other teams have a chance) and lose a chance to gain funding and possibly assignments for the next season. We are talking about competitions , are we not ?
I wouldn't suggest they're a shoo-in for that 5th spot, but the middle group in our senior field is pretty unsettled at the moment , and O/W have been on a sharp upward development curve as a couple . Why on earth shouldn't they try ?
I'm sure they've been aware of their situation all along and in light of all these requirements, I'd be surprised if they haven't been practicing Rhumba as well as Cha-cha through the off season.
Last edited by colleen o'neill; 09-07-2011 at 12:00 PM.
Orford/Williams probably have already choreographed their senior freedance knowing that they will be competing senior for nationals. Of course, their main focus right now would be the junior programs for the JGP season, after which they will concentrate on the senior stuff.
Constable , Costume Police
Exactly , from the sidelines...
09-07-2011, 01:53 PM
I'm not trying to be mean. Quite the opposite. I think the system stinks that they appear to have to compete both Junior and Senior this year. Again, we are talking about a lot of time and effort to make the top 5 at Senior for 1 competition. That's a big ask for a team. They may know the Rhumba pattern, but they still have to build a new program around it, and put some mileage on it, and they won't have competed it anywhere before Nationals. Same with an expanded free program. I'm pretty sure they are going to make the JGPF, and won't have to go to Challenge. In my opinion, with dancers, if they are competing well at Junior, winning or placing well internationally, they should not have to waste their time on Senior just for funding or ranking. The funding should just be there for them. There should be no loss of rank, but instead increased rank because of their achievements internationally. Even as it is today, I think a high international rank at Junior is much more valuable than a top 7 or 8 finish at Canadians in Senior. It's in the best interest of Skate Canada to promote this. Not competing domestically is not a weird sense of humility or about other teams, but a laser focused eye on their own results, which is winning a medal at Junior Worlds, which would be great for Orford/Williams, and happens to be pretty good for Canada, too.
Originally Posted by colleen o'neill
The new season provides fresh opportunities for all teams. Again, I point to Arnold/Trojek who moved up the ranks significantly and received international assignments based on their level of improvement and results in the new season, not the previous year's finish. Tons of teams age out of Junior into Senior. Most enjoy staying Junior as long as they can before moving up to Senior. I think Doleman was a 5th year Junior last year. Williams is a 6th year Junior this season. When they get to Senior, it's about having a good start to the season, building on strong international results as Juniors, and showing growth and improvement throughout the season. With CoP, it isn't/shouldn't be about ranking, but the skating on the ice on the day of competition.
I worry about them being able to place top 5 at Senior. My current count of the top 5: Virtue/Moir, Weaver/Poje, Paul/Islam, Harvey/Gagnon, Ralph/Hill (the last 2 in any order); other teams looking for top 5 would include Arnold/Trojek, Arrotta/Nickel, perhaps Gilles/Poirier (she comes with a ton of high level experience, and this is likely to be a very good team), and whoever else might still surprise us. It's early in the season yet, and teams will get good competitive mileage on their programs. I expect teams 4 through 8 at least to be in top shape by Nationals. Again, I count 16 teams for Nationals this year. At least the top 10 will be pretty solid by Nationals, I suspect.
09-07-2011, 04:42 PM
Constable , Costume Police
NorthernDancers..sorry if I misunderstood you , but you didn't mention before now ( in the matter of O/W, specifically ) that your complaint was with the system ,so it seemed that you were arguing against decisions perceived to be O/W's own. You may not intend to be unkind ( and I never thought it was your intention , just the natural consequences of your reasoning ).
The thing is , the system is what it is ...and I doubt if the skaters would think it kind or better for them to be unable to try to make their mark ASAP.If the system was changed , I don't think the skaters would feel it was particularly beneficial to be more or less left in limbo for a year between Jr and Sr.
( And just as an aside , do I think SC has always made wise decisions,? No , no , a thousand times no. )
I wouldn't like predict the outcome at Canadians this year, except for V/M, W/P and P/I.. with the usual caveats about health , etc. We're just at the beginning of the season. But from what I've seen of R/H and H/G's programs , if they don't improve vastly ( which they could do ) they look possibly beatable to me..by whoever...
So I'll be interested to see what the other contenders have to offer. I'm very curious about O/W because I thought I could see a marked improvement over last year in the way they skated their SD at BCSS , and I've heard some glowing reports of their FD at Minto.( we'll see on friday ) That doesn't mean I'm hyping them for 4th at nationals at this stage of the game..it just means that I wouldn't rule out that they could be in the thick of things.