New Ashley Wagner Video. | Page 2 | Golden Skate

New Ashley Wagner Video.

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Volosozhar/Trankov are skating to it for their LP.

Which will be AMAZING.

God, I hope so.

Ashley's program is the opposite of what she should be skating to IMO. Her creative teams need to stop trying to turn her into an ice princess.
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
So far I really like Ashley's SP. Or at least; it's got real potential and I can't wait to see her dress for it.

The 'Black Swan' program, I don't know, I think Ashley often has trouble to keep the LP going: keep it interesting, come up with enough variety; that seems to be an issue again. That combined with the fact that she often runs out of speed and stamina at the end of an LP has made the LP a bit of a burden for her (even though she says she prefers the skating the FS portion of the competition). But I'll have to watch it more often to really form an opinion.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I'm willing to wait and see. It's only August and that FS likely isn't even complete yet.
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Usually, V/T's programs are done quickly. They have already finished working with Nikolai Morozov from what I heard. They're probably doing some touch ups in the program. Also, Russians have test skates that they have to do in front of some coaches and judges for critiques. Those occur sometime in the middle of August through the beginning of September. Plus, V/T are going to Nebelhorn Trophy which is in the middle of September so they pretty much have a month and two weeks left.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Volosozhar/Trankov are skating to it for their LP.

Which will be AMAZING.

I would die of joy if Maxim "Emo Max" Trankov portrays the black swan to Tatiana's white swan. It would indeed be AMAZING in that case.


But to avoid the threat derailment previously experienced, I think Ashley's jumps look a bit improved--there is less two-footing and I think I see a bit of extra height in her jumps?
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
I would die of joy if Maxim "Emo Max" Trankov portrays the black swan to Tatiana's white swan. It would indeed be AMAZING in that case.


But to avoid the threat derailment previously experienced, I think Ashley's jumps look a bit improved--there is less two-footing and I think I see a bit of extra height in her jumps?

Trankov as black swan and Volosozhar as white swan reminds me of Kavaguti/Smirnov's Dying Swan program from 2009-2010.
 

Phobiamaster856

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
I really liked Ashley's short program. Its very different from what we have been seeing the last few seasons

I don't know about her long right now compared to Samantha Cesario's Black Swan program
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Does anyone know what music Ashley is skating to for the SP? I watched the link and it sounded fimiliar...probably a soundtrack. Program looks pretty generic at this point, but her jumps looked awesome.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Mr Nicks can't land the jumps for Ashley - but I was sure he would do something to make her skating stand out more.

They are just getting started and if Ashley ever does land her jumps cleanly she will be hard to beat, especially if the 3x3 is there and her flow across the ice is good.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
She only had one jumping error (pop) in her FS although it was on the "conservative side" with only a 3+2
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
God, I hope so.

Ashley's program is the opposite of what she should be skating to IMO. Her creative teams need to stop trying to turn her into an ice princess.

I agree, I don't get it. Maybe it's the way she insists on seeing herself as a skater. I wish she would pick something modern and different. She looks like she's trying hard to be the swan out there. Besides, yawn. Another swan program. Some skaters can take old warhorses and make them their own. But Ashley is not one of them. She's not the type who is going to be able to live up to previous interpretations. See Malaguena. She should try to bring something new and distinctive to the ice that says "Ashley Wagner" instead of "Another Lady Skater".

Then again, I often start out feeling lukewarm to some programs when I first see them and then end up loving them by December ...
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I don't think very many skaters manage to do that.


Clearly not. The ones who do become champions. That's why there so few champions. :)

However, there are SOME skaters who are not legends and still manage to embrace their uniqueness. Like Alena Leonova. Sometimes I hate her skating and sometimes I kind of like it. But at least she is memorable.
 

Jtsmith12

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Sasha Cohen is one who comes to mind. She used music that was so overused in the skating world, but yet she really made it her own. Malaguena for example..
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Although her LP is completely generic and forgettable, I do really like the music she's using for the SP. I don't think the choreography is particularly good, but it's a nice offbeat musical choice. Actually, the choreography is very poor in terms of interpreting the music, IMO. Almost every element is in the wrong place. They have jumps where she should be spinning, spins where she should be doing non-technical choreography, and non-technical choreography where she should be doing footwork (LOL at the spread eagle at the end of the program...how uselessly applied that movement is).

The other problem with the choreography is that the music has moments of sadness to it and there doesn't seem to be any effort at all to reflect that quality. Only the rapid, upbeat parts of the music seems to have been given attention in this program and even then the choreographer did not do a very good job at specifically bringing that aspect to life.

The shining moment of the program is when she is going into the 3Lutz as the music is building and then those quick, wistful piano notes come into the melody as she is in the air. A lovely moment and the one idea here that really works. This program has a ton of potential and it makes me sad that Ashley is working so hard to be great but isn't getting correct creative leadership. I'm going to go ahead and share how I would choreograph this music for her. Let us look at the current program to better see the envisioned changes:

Ashley Wagner's 2011-2012 Short Program

* To start off with, why are they having her remain still when the music starts? This is not a tango or some kind of serious dramatic piece. You're not getting any kind of special buildup by doing that. Then, when she does start moving, it's a kind of stationary toe stepping that feels like it belongs to a Freshman show choir. This must go. When the music starts she should be moving immediately (but not frantically...the very first movement can even still be a stationary pose as long as there is bodily motion) and a big smile should come across her face. The music sounds like a person who is discovering something new and exciting; that's what she should be thinking. She should be covering a good amount of ice in the opening with movement that is characterized by short series of sharp, fluid turns and upward arm movements.

* She will build up speed and do transitional steps going into her opening jump, a 2Axel. This jump will come at 0:36 and after holding the landing for a second there will come transitional movement that will directly correspond with the transition that is now happening in the music. After the transition she will go in a small circle around the rink while utilizing arm movements that are reminiscent of brush strokes a painter might make. After this circle she will then change direction and start building up speed.

* The foot and arm movements she currently does at 0:58 will instead come a few seconds earlier, to close off that section of the music. Once the music has changed to the new section where it is building up, I just want her to focus on gaining speed for a 3Lutz combination. She will do the 3Lutz one second earlier than she currently does so that the next jump in combination will come in time with the quick, wistful piano notes in the melody. She should go for a 3Loop on the back end of the Lutz. It's something she has done before and something she needs to set herself apart. Underrotations are no longer overly punished, so even an underrotated 3Loop will be worthwhile as long as she keeps it clean. If she's not feeling a 3Loop, then a 2Loop is fine too. It's good for her to do the combination with the Lutz, because I suspect her Lutz might still get some edge calls. Given that trying to do a 3-3 combination is more frequently going to result in -GOE (she currently plans 3Flip-3Toe), it would be better for her to attempt the 3-3 with the Lutz so that -GOE for both the Lutz (if it gets the call) and the 3-3 (if it's messed up) are contained within the same jumping pass. That way her solo Triple jump can get +GOE.

* After the combination jump she will then go right into her combination spin, at 1:09 with the change of melody in the music. This combination spin should end at 1:24 (it took her 15 seconds to complete the move in the current program), which is perfect as the melody has changed again. The music is now somber and as such there should be choreography that reflects this quality and calls upon Ashley to act lost and vulnerable. Following this short section of choreography we will come to the Layback. She will do the same Layback as she currently does and the first change of position (to a side layback) will come at 1:36, as a means of interpreting the high, longing piano that has entered into the music.

* Following the layback will be another short section of choreography that expresses isolation and loneliness (it will be far different from the kind of movement she currently does at 1:56...another out-of-place "attitude" movement that is disjointed from the music). After this section of choreography she will begin to build up speed and starting at 2:07 she will start doing transitional steps (which will reflect the sharp notes of the music) as the preparation for a 3Flip. The jump will come at 2:11 and after landing and holding the edge for a moment she will pause and pose very briefly before going into a straightline footwork sequence. This section leading up to the footwork sequence will be a big improvement over what the program currently is, as there will be an actual build-up that mirrors how the music is continually gaining more complexity during this part.

* It's hard to describe the formation and look of how I would do the footwork sequence with just words but I can definitely tell you I wouldn't include that "pushing" movement she currently does at 2:20 or any kind of stop at all. It doesn't go with the music. This melody is continuous and I don't hear/feel any points within this section where such a thing makes sense. I also would not utilize the "one foot for part of the pattern" feature, as that kind of movement relates more to a smoother tone and that's not what is happening in this music.

* The final technical move would be a Flying Sit, as it is in the current program, but I would have her only go for a Level 3 (doing the twisted position for the 8 revolutions) rather than a Level 4. The second variation she tries to do in the current flying sit (to get a Level 4) is plain ugly and slows the spin down. She would lose .4 in base value by taking that position out, but should gain more +GOE if she didn't do it and instead focused on making the spin fast and centered and using arm movements during the twisted position to provide more texture to the music and the move itself. Taking that final position out of the flying sit also gives her a couple extra seconds to add a better choreographic movement before the end of the program in order to further enhance the character of the program.
 

burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Wow, Blades of Passion, you should be a choreographer! :biggrin:

Is it possible for you to do one for Mirai's LP? I know everyone agrees that there needs to be changes (i.e. the spiral going away from the judges, the step sequence and the spins at the end).
 

christinaskater

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Although her LP is completely generic and forgettable, I do really like the music she's using for the SP. I don't think the choreography is particularly good, but it's a nice offbeat musical choice. Actually, the choreography is very poor in terms of interpreting the music, IMO. Almost every element is in the wrong place. They have jumps where she should be spinning, spins where she should be doing non-technical choreography, and non-technical choreography where she should be doing footwork (LOL at the spread eagle at the end of the program...how uselessly applied that movement is).

The other problem with the choreography is that the music has moments of sadness to it and there doesn't seem to be any effort at all to reflect that quality. Only the rapid, upbeat parts of the music seems to have been given attention in this program and even then the choreographer did not do a very good job at specifically bringing that aspect to life.

The shining moment of the program is when she is going into the 3Lutz as the music is building and then those quick, wistful piano notes come into the melody as she is in the air. A lovely moment and the one idea here that really works. This program has a ton of potential and it makes me sad that Ashley is working so hard to be great but isn't getting correct creative leadership. I'm going to go ahead and share how I would choreograph this music for her. Let us look at the current program to better see the envisioned changes:

Ashley Wagner's 2011-2012 Short Program

* To start off with, why are they having her remain still when the music starts? This is not a tango or some kind of serious dramatic piece. You're not getting any kind of special buildup by doing that. Then, when she does start moving, it's a kind of stationary toe stepping that feels like it belongs to a Freshman show choir. This must go. When the music starts she should be moving immediately (but not frantically...the very first movement can even still be a stationary pose as long as there is bodily motion) and a big smile should come across her face. The music sounds like a person who is discovering something new and exciting; that's what she should be thinking. She should be covering a good amount of ice in the opening with movement that is characterized by short series of sharp, fluid turns and upward arm movements.

* She will build up speed and do transitional steps going into her opening jump, a 2Axel. This jump will come at 0:36 and after holding the landing for a second there will come transitional movement that will directly correspond with the transition that is now happening in the music. After the transition she will go in a small circle around the rink while utilizing arm movements that are reminiscent of brush strokes a painter might make. After this circle she will then change direction and start building up speed.

* The foot and arm movements she currently does at 0:58 will instead come a few seconds earlier, to close off that section of the music. Once the music has changed to the new section where it is building up, I just want her to focus on gaining speed for a 3Lutz combination. She will do the 3Lutz one second earlier than she currently does so that the next jump in combination will come in time with the quick, wistful piano notes in the melody. She should go for a 3Loop on the back end of the Lutz. It's something she has done before and something she needs to set herself apart. Underrotations are no longer overly punished, so even an underrotated 3Loop will be worthwhile as long as she keeps it clean. If she's not feeling a 3Loop, then a 2Loop is fine too. It's good for her to do the combination with the Lutz, because I suspect her Lutz might still get some edge calls. Given that trying to do a 3-3 combination is more frequently going to result in -GOE (she currently plans 3Flip-3Toe), it would be better for her to attempt the 3-3 with the Lutz so that -GOE for both the Lutz (if it gets the call) and the 3-3 (if it's messed up) are contained within the same jumping pass. That way her solo Triple jump can get +GOE.

* After the combination jump she will then go right into her combination spin, at 1:09 with the change of melody in the music. This combination spin should end at 1:24 (it took her 15 seconds to complete the move in the current program), which is perfect as the melody has changed again. The music is now somber and as such there should be choreography that reflects this quality and calls upon Ashley to act lost and vulnerable. Following this short section of choreography we will come to the Layback. She will do the same Layback as she currently does and the first change of position (to a side layback) will come at 1:36, as a means of interpreting the high, longing piano that has entered into the music.

* Following the layback will be another short section of choreography that expresses isolation and loneliness (it will be far different from the kind of movement she currently does at 1:56...another out-of-place "attitude" movement that is disjointed from the music). After this section of choreography she will begin to build up speed and starting at 2:07 she will start doing transitional steps (which will reflect the sharp notes of the music) as the preparation for a 3Flip. The jump will come at 2:11 and after landing and holding the edge for a moment she will pause and pose very briefly before going into a straightline footwork sequence. This section leading up to the footwork sequence will be a big improvement over what the program currently is, as there will be an actual build-up that mirrors how the music is continually gaining more complexity during this part.

* It's hard to describe the formation and look of how I would do the footwork sequence with just words but I can definitely tell you I wouldn't include that "pushing" movement she currently does at 2:20 or any kind of stop at all. It doesn't go with the music. This melody is continuous and I don't hear/feel any points within this section where such a thing makes sense. I also would not utilize the "one foot for part of the pattern" feature, as that kind of movement relates more to a smoother tone and that's not what is happening in this music.

* The final technical move would be a Flying Sit, as it is in the current program, but I would have her only go for a Level 3 (doing the twisted position for the 8 revolutions) rather than a Level 4. The second variation she tries to do in the current flying sit (to get a Level 4) is plain ugly and slows the spin down. She would lose .4 in base value by taking that position out, but should gain more +GOE if she didn't do it and instead focused on making the spin fast and centered and using arm movements during the twisted position to provide more texture to the music and the move itself. Taking that final position out of the flying sit also gives her a couple extra seconds to add a better choreographic movement before the end of the program in order to further enhance the character of the program.

You are amazing Blades of Passion! I am very impressed!
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I haven't looked at Ashley's program in combo with Blades' proposals yet, but it sounds from his description like the problem may not all be due to the choreo. When he suggests shifts of a few seconds ("the foot and arm movements will come a few seconds later"... "she will do the lutz one second earlier"), surely it could be Ashley's timing, not the choreographer's stupidity, that's at fault, no?

Also, the music "calls on Ashley to look lost and vulnerable"? Ashley Wagner? Yeah, right.

She's not Sasha.

Still, a wonderfully constructive post and I look forward to studying Blades' plan in detail.
 
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