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Thread: Entries JGP Brisbane

  1. #91
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Brown also grew a lot this year, just in the middle of learning his 3A, so he has come a ways, but still has a ways to go with it.
    I believe Brown also changed boots this year. He had been in hinge boots, but they no longer are producing them and he went to more "traditionally" made boots which has changed his technique a little as well.

  2. #92
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I believe that's correct about the boots.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    IMO, while there are a lot of bullets for each of the PCS marks, on most judges' cards speed and flow and bi-directional skating seem to trump all the other bullets in skating skills (and Hicks could not have really good speed and flow if she were scratchy. She might be "choppy" or rush through her stroking technique instead of really paying attention to the details of it, but "scratchy" isn't a good description of her skating), quantity seems to trump in transitions and performance and execution, interpretation and choreography seem to follow along with the two more quantitive PCS marks (and of course, P/E seems to also go up when a skater is mostly successful in a more difficulty-laden program (3/3 and/or 3A for ladies, 4T/S for men) as though pulling a difficult jump pass out makes your performance better. It could be that being successful on that difficult jump pass gives the skater a little extra oomf for the rest of the program. I know, even as an adult, landing the most difficult jumps in my program makes my performance (at least feel) a little better because I get a little extra positive adrenaline boost when I do them and my P/E scores always go up when I land them (my events are typically scored under IJS).
    I honestly think Risa's PCS in the FS were mainly due to the problems she had in her SP, which I think has potential but isn't an ideal fit for her style not to mention her jumps were off there and she did not seem as committed or settled into her choreo there as she did in her FS, thus explaining her lower PCS. And then after placing 5th in the SP, the judges probably figured she did not deserve the highest PCS of the field for her FS, which was clean (to the blind eye) and beautiful and probably deserved the highest PCS, just because after her SP, they did not consider her one of the very best skaters in the field, which she proved wrong after her FS, but the mindset was probably still intact at that point. JMPO but it could have had something to do with it, especially because if you double her PCS from the SP you would get 44-45, and her FS PCS was 47+, so there was an increase already, so giving her PCS of 50 or more for her FS maybe would have seemed too drastic a jump, even if she maybe deserved those kinds of marks.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    From past records, probably the age of 16 is the limit to acquire reliable 3A. Patrick Chan still doesn't have one and may remain that way.
    From this, I can conclude that one doesn't need a reliable 3A to become a World Champion.

    And if mskater93 is correct in saying that Lysacek didn't have a reliable 3A at 16, then I'd conclude that a reliable 3A at 16 is not necessary to be a future Olympic Champion.

  5. #95
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    I don't think Lysacek had reliable 3A. Buttle was more obvious.

    Patrick Chan proved that a skater with the powerful federation support and 3 quads could have a chance to become a world champion with ONE clean 3A. But the judges might be less generous if a rival with 2 different quads and solid 3A takes the challenge. The Lysacek (Buttle) phenomenon is the thing of the past. THAT won't happen in foreseeable future. Many people agree that new rules on jumps are introduced to prevent such things to happen again.

    Even for juniors, no man won a JW medal without 3A in past two years. Let's see Jason Brown can be an "exception".
    Last edited by NMURA; 09-12-2011 at 11:07 PM.

  6. #96
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    OK so instead of criticizing these KIDS all of the time and diminishing their potential before they even get there why don’t we celebrate their achievements and acknowledge that they all work harder than most of us ever have in a sport that is extremely difficult. Most of the elite level skaters who are constant targets have put in the 10,000 hours of work towards being an expert before they have even reached adulthood. Now that is commitment. I would challenge any of the negative nattering naysayers to slap on some blades and do what these KIDS do every single day for multiple hours per day all year before imparting criticism and predictions.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Patrick Chan proved that a skater with the powerful federation support and 3 quads could have a chance to become a world champion with ONE clean 3A. But the judges might be less generous if a rival with 2 different quads and solid 3A takes the challenge.
    But that skater with his beautiful 3As and quads galore may have a wimpy federation behind him, like the US, or Japan, or Russia. Alas. Poor chap.

  8. #98
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Are there any violins on this planet ?

  9. #99
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    Are there any violins on this planet ?
    I don't know, but there are certainly quite a few guitars:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLGcToGe0gU

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    OK so instead of criticizing these KIDS all of the time and diminishing their potential before they even get there why don’t we celebrate their achievements and acknowledge that they all work harder than most of us ever have in a sport that is extremely difficult.
    Actually I believe it is way better for a young skater to be criticized mildly than to be overhyped and gushed over the top...

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Patrick Chan proved that a skater with the powerful federation support and 3 quads could have a chance to become a world champion with ONE clean 3A. But the judges might be less generous if a rival with 2 different quads and solid 3A takes the challenge. The Lysacek (Buttle) phenomenon is the thing of the past. THAT won't happen in foreseeable future. Many people agree that new rules on jumps are introduced to prevent such things to happen again.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    But that skater with his beautiful 3As and quads galore may have a wimpy federation behind him, like the US, or Japan, or Russia. Alas. Poor chap.
    What this analysis leaves out is the quality of the skating between the difficult jumps.
    A skater with some difficult successful jumps and also success on the less difficult jumps, successful good and/or difficult spins and steps, good skating skills and transitions between the elements, and good presentation will have an advantage over a skater who is just mediocre at all those things but has an extra difficult jump or two.

    Certain kinds of mistakes on the part of the skater with more jumps, or certain areas of being even better than just "good" on the part of the one without can also

    I.e., high GOEs and high components will mostly be deserved and can make up for

    The only thing an influential federation might do is to nudge deservedly high PCS even higher if it sets the expectations of the foreign judges regarding that skater especially high, since to some degree judges will see what they expect to see.

    But if what the skater puts out there really is good, it will be rewarded. And lots of small to medium rewards can add up to more than the value of one big jump.

    E.g., fourth at Europeans without a triple axel:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnAybUp1v_c

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Actually I believe it is way better for a young skater to be criticized mildly than to be overhyped and gushed over the top...
    Well, I think we should acknowledge weaknesses in each skater's skating as well as their strengths. But I don't see any need to get personal about it and criticize the skaters as people, especially with young teenagers.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    What this analysis leaves out is the quality of the skating between the difficult jumps.
    A skater with some difficult successful jumps and also success on the less difficult jumps, successful good and/or difficult spins and steps, good skating skills and transitions between the elements, and good presentation will have an advantage over a skater who is just mediocre at all those things but has an extra difficult jump or two.
    Exactly.

    Well, I think we should acknowledge weaknesses in each skater's skating as well as their strengths. But I don't see any need to get personal about it and criticize the skaters as people, especially with young teenagers.
    Well said, gkelly. Some family members and friends of these skaters (or even the skaters themselves) may be reading constructive and not-so-constructive criticism by fans here on the Internet forums for the first time and it can be a bit of a jarring experience.

    It should be noted that this is the first season that JGP videos for every skater/team are being posted by the ISU on YouTube... and inevitably the skating performances are being analyzed/nitpicked (and hopefully enjoyed as well! ) by skating fans, some of whom who may be applying the same criteria and/or standards to these juniors as they do to the seniors on the Senior Grand Prix, etc. The JGP is a developmental series and the majority of these young skaters are not likely to reach and/or succeed at the senior international level. Of course it is fun to try and spot exciting new talent and discuss the potential of some of these youngsters -- and opine whether or not they will "make it" as seniors -- but I think it is important to remember that ALL of these JGP skaters are trying to progress and improve at their own respective rates and abilities, and they should all be commended for putting themselves "out there."
    Last edited by Sylvia; 09-13-2011 at 03:44 PM.

  13. #103
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    I beileve in equal opportunity and don't write anybody off, which is especially unkind on the young ones. There are different paths for different individuals in their developments. We can have our own preferences but as far as competition results are concerned, there is a system in place and fans' personal opinions don't matter. All the skaters have to earn their way into competitions and medals. I say let them be and let them compete and bravo to all successes regardless of age, style, height, body type, looks and of course backgrounds.

  14. #104
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    doris..Thanks for that..yeah, the blues were apros pos and Cam's just a treat...

  15. #105
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I couldn't resist, colleen.

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