Entries JGP Brisbane | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Entries JGP Brisbane

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
It is fairer to compare Chan at 16.

2007 TEB FS No commentary, like the ISU videos.

Protocol

A fluke fall at the end on spin. :laugh: But he landed his 3A beautifully to win. 3As at SA earlier and Nats a couple of months later were also beautifully landed.

That's what a future World Champion looks like at 16.
 
Last edited:

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Just curious, do all skaters have to look like that at 16 or else they have no future...??? Did Evan or Jeff or Kurt or Elvis look like that?

No they don't. But Chan didn't win with falls in 3As even if it's so believed and stated. OK he did once, in SC 2010 LP with a quad. He lost SP, at 4th, when he fell on his 3A.

But I also expect later young skaters to look better and better than the previous generations. Let's see how Nathan Chen will do at 16.
 

nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
As much as I (personally) want Najarro to get a second jgp event, I definitely think it should be given to Purich. I believe that this is Najarro's fourth year on the circuit, and her lowest total score and placement to date. With Purich, SC would have data on one more lady. At this point, it's not like SC has masses of ladies to choose from. Roxanne Rheault and Veronik Mallet are the only other 2 skaters on the substitution list. Unfortunately, I don't have much faith in Roxanne. She seems way too inconsistent. Not sure about Mallet. I haven't seen much of her, except that she seemed heads and shoulders above the other girls at the Novice level last year.

I decided to do a geoskate and post all the summer scores I could find over 115 ( Skate Canada's minimum ) with my comments on protocols and ages on the Canadian summer competitions thread. Based on this research here are the ladies I would consider for an assignment. Look at the other thread for my raw data.

Purich, Daleman and Greben.

Mallet is old for someone who just came out of novice ( 17 years old ) and does not have the bigger triples. I share your concern with Rheault.

Daleman is just 13 and landed a lutz in Thornhill. Also these are the 3 youngest ladies who met the standard and all of them have landed ( or at least rotated ) the bigger jumps.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
It will be difficult to ever look better than chan he is an icon just like Browning, they know how to use their blades

Even now there is a bunch of 16 yo or younger who look really really good, with high PCS and big jumps e.g Yuzuru Hanyu and Han Yan (15). The even younger Nam Nguyen and Nathan Chen as well as some young Chinese Junior Men such as Jin Boyang are extremely talented.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
First time I saw Patrick Chan was at Liberty. He fell on all his triple axels. He was a smooth skater with good edges who failed to catch the audience's interest. He was skating as a senior-perhaps July 2006 or July 2005. In any case, he did exactly the same thing the following year.

Watching junior and first year senior skaters can be both difficult and rewarding, and sometimes sad. It is all too easy to see the promise, and then to grieve when the promise is not fulfilled. However, there is little better than seeing a young skater develop into a world champion and to think-I remember them winning juniors/novices/when they were wearing braces/falling on their 3A, but you could see the potential then.

(I remember Kristi Yamaguchi not winning junior ladies (she was second) and was wearing braces. I believe it was 1986 at US championships in Long Island's Nassau Colisseum.

The girl who won was a charming little chubby jumping bean named Cindy Bortz who landed a triple lutz and a bunch of other triples and who never made a splash in seniors. The third place girl was Rory Flack (now Burghart.) Yamaguchi was second.
 
Last edited:

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Fair enough.

My comment was a little snarky (and admittedly, I intended the snark), but my response is twofold.

1. I don't watch juniors, pretty much categorically. I haven't seen Adelina nor Eliza nor Courtney Hicks nor Christina Gao skate. It's not so much the unfulfilled promise aspect but that I don't feel all that comfortable with the sport when it's about prepubescent boys and girls. When you add on the general obssession with youth, the way that those that don't make the grade tend to be discarded rather callously, the physical aspects (you've gotta wonder how many of the young girls are pressured into poor health, like Akiko Suzuki was).... I find the whole thing distasteful. Dance tends to be an exception because it feels like the least hyped of the four disciplines, but even there I feel a bit of a conflict. Generally, what I watch for in figure skating isn't present in juniors (command, connection, athleticism), so that makes it largely easy to ignore.

2. Consequently, I'm VERY leery when it comes to overhyped juniors. I loathed I/K as soon as I saw them on the JGP, for example (that FD remains the worst ice dance program I've seen). The hype for Brown has really kicked into gear as a loud fanbase has developed. But I was underwhelmed with his Nationals LP last season, and his SP now. Didn't bother finishing the LP as it wasn't all that interesting to me.

3. That said, I'm a wierd fan of the sport. For example, for all my admiration for Chan, I didn't see his first Nationals winning LP until a couple months ago. I don't feel the need to excavate the past of skaters I admire (V/M are the exceptions here) - there are some huge gaps in my figure skating viewing that I'll fill - maybe. Life is short and my interests are many.

4. The snark was at the Patrick Chan comparison. I know you don't care for him (recalling your comments from seeing him live as well as your comments pre-Worlds), so the only thing I took from what you said was "Well, you like this other skater who doesn't have a 3A but has choreography, so you should like Brown." I'm still a little confused why you brought him up in the first place.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I brought Chan up as a skater who had great skating skills but no reliable triple axel at the age of 16, and yet became world champion later. I think it would have been a mistake for Canada to have left Chan off world teams back then, and the wisdom of keeping him on world teams is now clearly evident, as he is world champion. I think it would be a huge mistake not to send Jason to his second JGP, just as it would have been a mistake to leave out Chan.

Who knows where Jason will eventually go? As I said, watching Junior skaters has its sad side. He may indeed never get a reliable 3A or 4T. I generally stick to the Junior dancers and make no effort to see the junior singles, but Jason last year was competing at his first senior men's competition at US Nationals. He completely owned the entire audience, winning 2 thunderous standing ovations, despite not being one of the premier skaters there.

And therefore, I will always be interested to see how he's doing.

Besides, his choreographer, Rohene Ward, was a long-time favorite skater of mine, again despite not having much competition success.
 

MrScroogeMcDuck

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I had a very snarky response to the Canadian contingent written up, but thought better of it.

Doris, I hope Jason keeps Rohene as his choreographer for a long time. The two fit perfectly together.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I brought Chan up as a skater who had great skating skills but no reliable triple axel at the age of 16, and yet became world champion later.

At 16, Chan's 3As results:

SA SP +1.4 GOE
SA LP +0.4 GOE

TEB SP +1.4 GOE
TEB LP +1.2 GOE

GPF SP +1.0 GOE
GPF LP -0.8 GOE

At 17 and 1/2 month

NAT SP -2.5 GOE
NAT LP 0.0 GOE

eta these are 2007-2008 values when 3A was worth 7.5 and GOE values were lower.

One fall in 8 attempts, 6 of which at Senior international events.


I think it would have been a mistake for Canada to have left Chan off world teams back then, and the wisdom of keeping him on world teams is now clearly evident, as he is world champion. I think it would be a huge mistake not to send Jason to his second JGP, just as it would have been a mistake to leave out Chan.

Of course it would be an unthinkable msitake to leave Chan out of the World Team. He won a GP gold and a bronze, and became the Canadian Mens Champion at barely 17.

Who knows where Jason will eventually go? As I said, watching Junior skaters has its sad side. He may indeed never get a reliable 3A or 4T. I generally stick to the Junior dancers and make no effort to see the junior singles, but Jason last year was competing at his first senior men's competition at US Nationals. He completely owned the entire audience, winning 2 thunderous standing ovations, despite not being one of the premier skaters there.

And therefore, I will always be interested to see how he's doing.

Besides, his choreographer, Rohene Ward, was a long-time favorite skater of mine, again despite not having much competition success.

Agreed. Jason is talented and very promising and should be nurtured and given all the opportunities. Only your comparison with Chan is highly inaccurate.

Mr. Duck, you may snark all you want but it wouldn't change facts and history.
 
Last edited:

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Pogue .. I find myself somewhere in the middle as to how much junior skating I can watch. I love to see the really promising new talent and watch it develop ..although as doris points out, it's very sad when potential is not realised for one reason or another ... yet there's many and many a performance I just opt out of , and find myself quoting Jane Austen , " Not now, dear. You've delighted us long enough. ";)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Fair enough.

My comment was a little snarky (and admittedly, I intended the snark), but my response is twofold.

1. I don't watch juniors, pretty much categorically. I haven't seen Adelina nor Eliza nor Courtney Hicks nor Christina Gao skate. It's not so much the unfulfilled promise aspect but that I don't feel all that comfortable with the sport when it's about prepubescent boys and girls. When you add on the general obssession with youth, the way that those that don't make the grade tend to be discarded rather callously, the physical aspects (you've gotta wonder how many of the young girls are pressured into poor health, like Akiko Suzuki was).... I find the whole thing distasteful. Dance tends to be an exception because it feels like the least hyped of the four disciplines, but even there I feel a bit of a conflict. Generally, what I watch for in figure skating isn't present in juniors (command, connection, athleticism), so that makes it largely easy to ignore.
e.

But Gao has been in the senior US nationals the past two years I think. I remember seeing her. She came in fifth so maybe you didn't go down the rankings that much.

1. Brown is taking advantage of the fact that TES makes up only half your score. He's taking advantage of the fact that there's more to TES than just jumps.

2. gmyers, who from the American juniors would you send instead of Brown?

.


I don't have specific person in mind but there are people. But he will be sent to a second one just like last year but I just don't see that much a benefit for anyone involved when thinking of seniors as part of the equation.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
I don't object Jason Brown's win, yet I don't think he has a very promising future. He's not Patrick Chan, which means he is an American. The American skaters are always pressured to make quick successes, otherwise they are eliminated through institutionalized "selections". He may be able to achieve some successes without the 3A in the junior (for example, a medal at JGPF), and probably he will be "selected" for senior GP in the next season. For that purpose, he can't afford to "attempt" dicey jumps in actual competitions like Patrick Chan. Brown is pretty good at spins and steps. But in my eyes, those are nothing but compensations for technical weaknesses. A strong jumper can polish up his spins and steps after entering the senior. That is much easier compared to a weak jumper to master the 3A and quads in face of brutal "selections". A man without reliable 3A has even lesser chances in this new quad era.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
2. Consequently, I'm VERY leery when it comes to overhyped juniors. I loathed I/K as soon as I saw them on the JGP, for example (that FD remains the worst ice dance program I've seen). The hype for Brown has really kicked into gear as a loud fanbase has developed. But I was underwhelmed with his Nationals LP last season, and his SP now. Didn't bother finishing the LP as it wasn't all that interesting to me.

Yes, I think the huge hype over Brown is rather scary and may not be of benefit for the skater in the long run. There are some examples of overhyped junior skaters who did not shine as seniors in competitions. Just thinking of e.g. Caroline Zhang and NNN... My guess is that Rohene Ward was one of them as well?

A strong jumper can polish up his spins and steps after entering the senior. That is much easier compared to a weak jumper to master the 3A and quads in face of brutal "selections". A man without reliable 3A has even lesser chances in this new quad era.

A weak jumper, yes, that was my impression of Brown in this JGP... I hope though that his jumping will succeed better in his next event.
 
Last edited:

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
While Brown may have been a little off in the LP, he IS a good jumper up to 3Lz and his spins and steps are really quite good. I think the thing about Brown is that you REALLY have to see him in person. He is magnetic! His speed and fluidity are quite impressive and he attracts you to watch him skate no matter what the elements are like. Yeah, OK, I might be gushing a bit, but I've watched him grow up and he's had this magnetism for as long as I can remember, even when he was 10 years old in Prejuvenile. His work ethic is awesome, I've shared practice ice with him and he works and works and works (this, according to reports from people who used to skate with him, will set him apart from his choreographer). He was really close to a clean and consistent 3A around the April/May time frame and then he grew about 5 inches which has thrown everything off a bit over the last couple months. I think he's about ready to sprout again...
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
But Gao has been in the senior US nationals the past two years I think. I remember seeing her. She came in fifth so maybe you didn't go down the rankings that much.

Yeah, if I could align national and international standards on the senior vs junior issue, I totally would. I also didn't see Nationals, just youtubes.

I don't have specific person in mind but there are people. But he will be sent to a second one just like last year but I just don't see that much a benefit for anyone involved when thinking of seniors as part of the equation.

I'm not sure there are. More particularly, I'm not convinced there's another American guy with an 3A that is competing on the junior level who won't already get two spots. Messing and Max Aaron have both aged out. Dornbush is strictly senior now.
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
More particularly, I'm not convinced there's another American guy with an 3A that is competing on the junior level who won't already get two spots. Messing and Max Aaron have both aged out. Dornbush is strictly senior now.

Joshua Farris has a 3A and he's still skating international junior this season. He's assigned to Poland JGP but think not yet a 2nd one.
 

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Jason Brown is only 16. ITA that without a reliable consistent 3A and quad, great success at the senior level isn't going to happen. But he's working on the 3A, he's apparently gone through some growths spurts, so maybe all he needs is some time. Males tend to develop later than females. While there's no guarantee, I do think that he's on the right track, and that it is too soon to write him off.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Menshov just came into his own this year...at 27 or 28. For that matter, Rudy Galindo was 26 when he finally had a break through at Senior Nationals. So people figuring Rippon, let alone Brown, are already toast just haven't been watching.
 
Top