Who deserved the 2002 Worlds Ladies title?

The 2002 Worlds results were never debated, other than by the odd delusional extreme fan of some skater. Irina skated two clean programs and was the clear winner. Michelle made a major mistake in the short but skated an equal long program to Irina and was the deserving silver medalist. The long program result is irrelevant since Irina would have won even if Michelle had won the long program. Fumie Suguri skated a very good short and a decent but not great long and was the deserving bronze medalist, over Cohen who fell in the short and fell twice in the long. After all the drama of SLC , and the drama of the ice dancing at Worlds, the fairly routine and obvious results wise ladies event almost went by barely noticed, alot like the 98 Worlds.

As for SLC Irina should have won the short program, but as attyfan said the skate would have been totally different in the LP if the SP results were reversed. Michelle would have definitely been better if she wasnt leading after the SP, Irina might have been better also if she were. History of both indicates they prefer those positions. So it is meaningless to judges the LPs as is if one is doing a hypothetical judge for yourself competition.

silverpond said:

Irina skated well at the Worlds that year and won, thanks in part to the mistakes Michelle Kwan made in the short program. She seemed pleased to have regained her World title.

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Actually, 2002 was the first time Irina won gold at worlds; she'd been 2nd to Michelle 3 times and 3rd behind Michelle and Lu Chen in 1996. She finished her career with two world titles (2002 and 2005).

Irina was like Miki, to me. They both have big, springy jumps and are lacking severely when it comes to artistry. I never bought into the "new artistic" side of Irina...that was BS and hype. Irina didn't have a graceful bone in her body IMO. What she did have was really big jumps and spins with multiple positions, though now when I go back and watch her spins, I can see the lack of line and extension in them...still, she had awesome spins and I haven't seen anyone replicate that double Biellmann since...

I do think that Irina probably should have been in 1st heading into the LP. She was 100% clean, albeit uninspired in her SP. Michelle's flip was slightly UR but the rest of her program was lovely and there's no denying that (the musicality, the choreography, great delivery), so I'd have had her a close 2nd. It does suck that Sasha's first international competition was the Olympics, thus she was skimped on the marks (very similar to what happen to Mirai at the Olympics). Still, I'd have had her 3rd with Sarah 4th.

The LP is a different story. Yes, give Sarah the win there, but I think Irina being placed above Michelle was wrong. Even with the mistake on the flip, Michelle's program had more choreography, more substance and was delivered better than Irina's. That Tosca program versus Michelle's Scherazade was a no brainer. Besides, a couple of Irina's jumps were wonky which took the presentation down even further in my book. Faux-artistic Irina makes me cringe...I don't think she deserved anything over a 5.6 in presentation: horrible lines, no choreography or interpretation of the music...it wasn't a good program and IMO she was gifted with that silver medal.

I'm hardly an extreme fan of Suguri (I'll let everyone else decide if I'm delusional). I just find that particular performance to be stunning; she captured the music in a very special way. Considering the second mark counts for half the score and she was the best of the night in terms of artistry, that made the performance worthy of the World title in my mind. Her only technical deficit in comparison to Slutskaya was doubling the 3Loop and doing a 3Lutz-2Toe combination instead of 3Lutz-2Loop. Suguri had excellent amplitude on her jumps, good spins, a good Spiral, and a very good footwork sequence. If all you care about in Figure Skating is counting jumps then, sure, Slutskaya deserved to win. If the non-technical aspects are given proper weight, then you may find Suguri was better at that competition.

I dont see what is so amazing about Suguris performance artistically. It was good but not amazing. It was not a stunning interpretation of Moonlight Sonata or anything. When I watch anyone skate to that music I think back to Gordeeva & Grinkov skating to it at the 94 Olympics, and her interpretation of it did not come anywhere near the same impact, which it would have if it was a truly great artistic performance. Her positions and posture also leave alot to be desired as Dick Button has pointed out on many occasions. They are no better than even Slutskaya who is correctly noted to be lacking in those area. Her layback is quite hideous in fact. I certainly dont agree she was artistically better than Kwan, and technically she was clearly inferior to both Slutskaya and Kwan. Slutskaya also had by far the best short program of all the women at those Worlds, and I know you dont even choose your placings by the factored points format, so under your method Irinas vastly superior short program would all but gaurantee her win anyway.

I also disagree it was her best performance ever. Suguri had better performances at the 2003 cheesefest after Worlds, 2004 GP final, 2005 Four Continents. She jumped better, and had programs and performances as good or better in all of those cases.

Anyway I was never referring to you with my initial comments. I have no problem if you have the unique opinion Suguri deserved to win the 2002 Worlds, I was just referring to what I remember at the time which is that the final results were not all disputed at the time, except for a few of the looney Kwan fans from MKforum on the web.

I agree with the initial posters scores for the long program and adding some others:

Kwan- 5.7 technical, 5.8 or 5.9 presentation
Slutskaya- 5.8 technical, 5.8 presentation
Suguri- 5.6 technical, 5.7 presentation
Cohen- 5.3 technical, 5.6 presentation
Onda- 5.6 technical, 5.3 presentation

Either Kwan or Slutskaya winning the long program is fine with me and irrelevant to the final result.

Suguri landed 6 Triples in other Long Programs, rather than the 5 she did at 2002 Worlds, but I don't feel those performances were better overall. Just technically better. I'd say that her 2005 Four Continents LP would be her second-best ever and then 2004 Worlds would be the third best, followed by 2006 Skate Canada and NHK.

Her 2003 LP was really just not that great if you ask me. Even with a clean skate including 6 Triples at the 2003 ABC Challenge, it doesn't make a big impression. The music felt too grand for her throughout most of it and the choreography rather drab in many spot; she always seemed overly concerned and detached when trying to perform that program.