Lost Skating Moves

All of the fantastic clips of older skating programs have me wondering what happened to some of the cool tricks previous generations of skaters have done which are pretty much forgotten now.

The ones that come to mind for me most clearly are lost pair skating moves like different takeoffs for twist lifts, variations on entrances to death spirals and crowd pleasing moves like cartwheel and hydrant lifts.

There are also singles moves that are no linger being done like double axel sit spins, one foot axels, etc.

I know that most of these have been eliminated for COP reasons. Some don't garner enough points, while others like the 2a sit spin would be counted toward the jumping pass total. Still others may have been lost because of their difficulty.

Here's a look at some old moves I wish were still in use.

Double axel twist lift: Many of the early Moskvina teams along with some other Soviet and German pairs performed this move. After Valova and Vasiliev retired, it pretty much went away. I always liked it, though it was not as naturally high as the lutz/flip twists, it seems far trickier to pull off in my eyes. I wonder if any teams still practice it or if a triple version is possible.

Vorobieva and Lisovsky 1981 Worlds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW-3iAhVxbg&feature=player_detailpage#t=48s (The move happens after about 5 seconds from the start of this clip. Also note that they also perform a split triple lutz twizt shortly thereafter.)

Double axel sit spin
Alexander Fadeev frequently preformed this flying spin in his programs. I can't easily recall any other skaters doing it. It's a wonder full move however.

1985 Worlds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdI7dVbpMaQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=51s

Are the any other lost skating moves others can think of?

There are two different kind of lost moves being discussed here:
1) moves that one skater tried once or kept as a signature move but no one else ever tried or maybe only a few imitators
2) moves that were common for years and then dropped out of the common repertory

Do you want to focus on one or the other, or both?

Sometimes it's hard to know whether a move was common in its era or not if we only have a handful of videos of skating in that era to go by. Did people watching at the time think "Wow, what a cool unusual move" or did they think "Oh, that again"?

One reason we might remember an unusual move that one or few skaters ever did would be if it was performed by a prominent skater at one or more prominent televised events -- programs that tend to get rewatched after the fact and shown to new fans trying to catch up on the history of the sport -- and drawn attention to by the commentators. Other moves that were similarly rare but never made it to TV might be completely forgotten.

As for formerly common moves that become uncommon, some of it might just be passing fads and fashion. But the other reasons would be if the rules, standards, and expectations changed so much that those moves are no longer as valuable as they once were or the skaters no longer have the skills.

jcoates said:

Double axel sit spin
Alexander Fadeev frequently preformed this flying spin in his programs. I can't easily recall any other skaters doing it.

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I can't recall anyone else doing it either. A good clue that this one would fall into the first category.

Another unusual flying spin I saw in the early 1990s was a tuck sit position in the air opening into a camel on the landing. I guess I'd call it an axel flying camel. The surprising thing is that I saw this move from two different skaters: Kurt Browning and Philippe Candeloro. But neither of them did it for years, and commentators tended not to call attention to it when they did.

See, for example, the flying combination at the end of this program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_GCcnO0u6s

Check out the spiral position starting at 2:54 in this program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1LsqEZ3W3c
Not a well-known skater, maybe only televised the one time. I've seen a similar position on ice from one other US lady a few years later who never had a whole program televised. Not something most fans would remember. But maybe equally as "common" as the flying camel mentioned above.

Are the any other lost skating moves others can think of?[/QUOTE]

Some other moves that I have the impression used to be relatively common but fell by the wayside for one reason or another:

*Low-rotation jump variations such as delayed axels and split-flip jumps
I'm not sure if split-flip was ever common. Offhand I can remember Paul Wylie doing it fairly often and Todd Eldredge at least once about the same era. Probably a few others but it may have been more of a Wylie signature move than a standard element.
Delayed axel I think was pretty common in the mid-late 1970s when single axel was sometimes a required element in the short program so skaters had an incentive to develop the skill. It became less common by the 1980s when the focus was more on developing triple jumps.
With the current well-balanced program rules under the IJS, it's even less worthwhile to include these jumps because they fill jump boxes but only earn the base value of single jumps. Even with a +3 GOE they wouldn't be worth as much as a so-so double axel or double flip.

*Edge work including loops and changes of edge in a small portion of the ice during the slow section of a program
I think I remember seeing this in some 1980s programs, maybe before, when all the senior skaters would have had to spend much of their training time practicing paragraph loops for the school figures competition, so some would choose to use that skill in a less precise, more relaxed context in a freestyle program. By the mid-1990s, we'd sometimes see it from older skaters such as Eldredge who had first come up to senior level during the figures era.
But most skaters from the mid-90s to the mid-00s never competed figures; probably most never even learned to do loops at all. Then when including loops in a step sequence officially became an option for earning a higher level under IJS, suddenly skaters started to do loops again. Now we see them mostly in the step sequences and rarely as part of the transitions.

I miss seeing Russian splits, illusion spins, fast scratch spins, headless scratch spins, butterflies, falling leaves and other such flashy moves. Some of these do require a lot of exertion, and since they don't accumulate any points the skaters just don't bother anymore.

gkelly said:

*Low-rotation jump variations such as delayed axels and split-flip jumps
I'm not sure if split-flip was ever common. Offhand I can remember Paul Wylie doing it fairly often and Todd Eldredge at least once about the same era. Probably a few others but it may have been more of a Wylie signature move than a standard element.
Delayed axel I think was pretty common in the mid-late 1970s when single axel was sometimes a required element in the short program so skaters had an incentive to develop the skill. It became less common by the 1980s when the focus was more on developing triple jumps.
With the current well-balanced program rules under the IJS, it's even less worthwhile to include these jumps because they fill jump boxes but only earn the base value of single jumps. Even with a +3 GOE they wouldn't be worth as much as a so-so double axel or double flip.

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I loooove delayed jumps. I hope one day the CoP makes it okay to add those in as ornamental jumps. They're so lovely to watch. I wish skaters would add them into exhibition programs at least.

I also haven't seen illusion spins in a while. I've seen them in the middle of step sequences, but that's about it.

Oh I also like seeing spirals that end in a spin and spins in both directions! Yeah, the days of the delayed axel were pretty great. They're just awe inspiring when done well.

Oh, opposite direction spins, I forgot about those! I miss those too.

brightphoton said:

Oh, opposite direction spins, I forgot about those! I miss those too.

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They're probably more common in pairs now than in pre-IJS eras, because change of direction is a feature toward a higher level and it's easier to achieve in a pair spin than a solo spin.

Rachael Flatt does them, but most singles skaters find easier ways to earn their features. Especially since change of direction in an upright spin is no longer a feature as of last year.

Still, they were never very common and certainly do still exist, so I don't think of it as something that's lost -- just rare.

Something that maybe never really existed but might be possible and should certainly be an exception to the change of direction in upright spin doesn't count rule: change of direction in a spin without changing foot.

See this example by Karl Schaefer, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k1er6NRYdY at 2:30:

Brief forward upright spin in attitude position on the toe, exit on forward outside edge, change edge, and even briefer backspin on the toe

If the skater did a regular spin with more of the blade on the ice, could it be sustained long enough to count? And would the change of center be forgiven?

I suspect Shawn Sawyer's spectucular spin will be a lost move too. It's certainly in the category of unique and probably impossible to duplicate.

brightphoton said:

I loooove delayed jumps. I hope one day the CoP makes it okay to add those in as ornamental jumps. They're so lovely to watch. I wish skaters would add them into exhibition programs at least.

I also haven't seen illusion spins in a while. I've seen them in the middle of step sequences, but that's about it.

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I'm also a big fan of these when done by a master, especially open delayed axel. Try these from Robin Cousins (who was a tall 6-footer, which makes these even more impressive):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpGOA3l57TY at 1:20 and also the slide (spiral) at 5:38 and a phenomenal o.d. axel into a deep sit at 6:28
also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dors9DxueWM 1:30 slide, 1:57 walleys (big fan of well-done walleys) and 2:49 open axel with arms over.

Don't even miss the lack of triples/quads.

brightphoton said:

Oh, opposite direction spins, I forgot about those! I miss those too.

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Me, too. I remember Michelle used to do them, and John Curry. I'm sure they were more in demand in the old days. Michelle was one of the last masters of these, I think.

I wouldn't be surprised if Katherine Healy did/does reverse spins. She trained in ballet, which values symmetry. Skating allows the person to favor one side or the other.

John Curry was a really interesting case. As I recall, he jumped in counterclockwise and could also spin the same way, but his main spinning was in the clockwise direction. I have no idea how one can develop this....

I miss a lot of his edgework moves--now there was someone who could incorporate into a program figures loops and other moves like butter.

Opposite direction spins

As I said, they're pretty common in pair spins these days. For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbr5vBudgRc (spin at 4:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZugTcL3fvk (4:45)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ora8RPACiaE (3:40)

Most recent prominent singles skater I could find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9LlqYkLD6k (4:05)

2009 when change of direction in an upright spin still counted as a feature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmYafovCYUw (2:15)

Skated under IJS, but no extra points because there wasn't a change of direction in the same spin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znMrXtbyGR8 (3:35)

bigsisjiejie said:

John Curry was a really interesting case. As I recall, he jumped in counterclockwise and could also spin the same way, but his main spinning was in the clockwise direction. I have no idea how one can develop this....

I miss a lot of his edgework moves--now there was someone who could incorporate into a program figures loops and other moves like butter.

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John Curry and Katherine Healy were a class of ballet figure skaters. Katherine eventually became a ballerina and John eventually did ballet after his ice theater flopped, bless his heart. Ballet dancers are supposed to be able to turn in both directions, but their primary direction of turning is clockwise if they're right handed. John required everyone in his ice company to be able to spin in both directions. It was a documentary on Youtube, I should go look for it soon.

I remember Michelle doing an opposite camel in Lyra Angelica, and thinking, how strange, you never see those!

1 1/2 flip done in sequence with a single axel. I seem to remember Peggy Fleming doing that.