JGP Tallinn Entries | Page 2 | Golden Skate

JGP Tallinn Entries

Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I don't agree that Gracie Gold skates more maturely than Julia L. She looks more mature because she's two or three years older but that's not the same as having better presentation. Gracie's jumps are definitely bigger and that gives her a terrific advantage. Julia is a baby ballerina with stunning line and flexibility. Gracie has little flexibility - her Russian split is unimpressive and unlike Flattfan I wasn't wowed by her Ina Bauer into lutz because she has no backbend whatsoever. They're both fast. Julia's spins have much more wow factor. They'll be good competition for each other but I predict that Julia will outlast Gracie. Of course I'm prejudiced as I'm in Julia's corner bigtime. :love:

On a minor note, I hope Gracie changes her costume as this one makes her look wide around the waist (the dress has no waist and is lighter in the middle).
 

ntl

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
I agree that Gracie still has a way to go in term of presentation, but so does Julia. Granted, Gracie isn't a gumbie, but her stretch is definitely decent from what I've seen. And no, an Ina Bauer doesn't have to have a back bend; we are just too accustomed to seeing layback Inas these days. To be frank, I'm not a fan of the flexibility moves in Julia's programs that are put there simply to show off her flexibility without any relation to choreography. Her leg-over-head Biellmann and spiral in particular are flexible but really unattractive in my opinion.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Well I believe Risa should score better on SS(by some margin; speed isn't everything and Risa is not a slow skater by any means), on IN and CH. Gracie had that wow factor tonight and her PE score should be higher. Plus she had more transitions compared to Risa, this I agree. As a curiosity, Judge nr 7 gave Gracie 5 and 5.25 on her PCS while another 7 and 7.25(which proves that some judges have no idea what to do with a skater they have never seen before and who lands big jumps).Anyway, I never said Gracie was overscored compared to Risa, I said Risa is underscored compared with the rest on the field(not only on this JGP). She feels the music and expresses it very nicely, her arms are wonderful and she simply has a more mature way of skating. I like her better than Kanako Murakami for this matter. Still, like I've said, the placements were correct and it is nice to see the top 3 ladies with a true 3Lz. It's so bad Gracie does not have a second assignment, it would have been exciting to see her and Julia competing against each other at the JGPF. But maybe we'll see them at Junior Worlds(and Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva :biggrin:....who needs Senior ladies this season?:biggrin:)

Risa's SS is unmatched, I agree.
As for IN and CH, they are so subjective. They tend to be higher for anyone who has the wow factor. Kavaguti/Smirnov clearly had the best IN and CH, and yet, theirs were so much lower than S/S, P/T, and even V/T.
The other two components, TR and PE, you agreed Gracie should score well.
Anyway, their PCS should approach Julia's PCS. Unfortunately, they get the same PCS as so many other girls.

The judging is hopeless. Last week, Sakoto had more TR than Patrick Chan, and she got 5+ average. And Julia got 7+ average. Ridiculous!
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I don't agree that Gracie Gold skates more maturely than Julia L. She looks more mature because she's two or three years older but that's not the same as having better presentation. Gracie's jumps are definitely bigger and that gives her a terrific advantage. Julia is a baby ballerina with stunning line and flexibility. Gracie has little flexibility - her Russian split is unimpressive and unlike Flattfan I wasn't wowed by her Ina Bauer into lutz because she has no backbend whatsoever. They're both fast. Julia's spins have much more wow factor. They'll be good competition for each other but I predict that Julia will outlast Gracie. Of course I'm prejudiced as I'm in Julia's corner bigtime. :love:

On a minor note, I hope Gracie changes her costume as this one makes her look wide around the waist (the dress has no waist and is lighter in the middle).

It's a judged sport. What you present on the ice is what you get. You're telling people that judging should be on a curve? The 13yo get judged in the 13yo-group. The 16yo get judged in the 16yo-group? Urgh, no.

Julia is impressive, but I don't like her programs. I feel like watching gymnastics at time in her routine, I mean SP. Her Biellman is unsightly. Sorry.
 

LeCygne

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
I agree that Gracie still has a way to go in term of presentation, but so does Julia. Granted, Gracie isn't a gumbie, but her stretch is definitely decent from what I've seen. And no, an Ina Bauer doesn't have to have a back bend; we are just too accustomed to seeing layback Inas these days. To be frank, I'm not a fan of the flexibility moves in Julia's programs that are put there simply to show off her flexibility without any relation to choreography. Her leg-over-head Biellmann and spiral in particular are flexible but really unattractive in my opinion.

Good post. Gracie isn't any less flexible than your average ladies skaters. We can't all have Russian splits like Sasha Cohen's or Ina Bauers like Shizuka Arakawa's. I don't believe Gracie was going for a layback Ina Bauer into the triple lutz anyway, and she does have a very nice Biellmann. I'm also not a big fan of Julia's catchfoot spirals throughout the program - that's not choreography. We know she's flexible from her spin positions and spiral sequence. She doesn't need to stick her leg in the air every couple of strokes (to be blunt - of course I'm exaggerating). I am, however, impressed that Julia seems to have the best of both worlds: crazy flexibility and excellent jumps. We've seen so many skaters gifted with one of the two but struggling to develop or maintain the other (Sasha, Mao, Yu-Na, Mirai, Caroline). Let's see if Julia can keep both as she gets older.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Flattfan, that's not what I said or meant. My point was that what someone referred to as Gracie's more mature skating is really nothing more (IMO) than a more mature physical appearance, which is only to be expected since she is significantly older and further along in the puberty process.

No skin off my back if you don't like Julia. Just wait. ;)

I'm not arguing that Julia is fully developed artistically or that she has fabulous programs. I just think that Gracie's jumps are the best part of her skating and that Julia has all the talent, and apparently discipline, she needs to be blowing everybody's socks off in a couple of years... at least if she has good material to work with. JMO.

Thanks to the posters who enlightened me re: different types of IBs.
 
Last edited:

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I enjoyed Gold's skating more than Julia's, if only because uber-flexibility really doesn't impress me, whereas power and chutzpah certainly does.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Risa's SS is unmatched, I agree.
As for IN and CH, they are so subjective. They tend to be higher for anyone who has the wow factor. Kavaguti/Smirnov clearly had the best IN and CH, and yet, theirs were so much lower than S/S, P/T, and even V/T.
The other two components, TR and PE, you agreed Gracie should score well.
Anyway, their PCS should approach Julia's PCS. Unfortunately, they get the same PCS as so many other girls.

The judging is hopeless. Last week, Sakoto had more TR than Patrick Chan, and she got 5+ average. And Julia got 7+ average. Ridiculous!

I think this is a big factor. I love Risa's skating, but her style is a bit more introverted than someone like Julia or even Gracie who just go out there and throw everything they've got down. Julia is quite the prodigy, so I'll leave her out of this, but comparing Risa and Gracie is like comparing Abbott and Joubert. If they both skate well, they will get similar big PCS because they are both great skaters. Joubert's big jumps and flashy style have gotten him far even though I find his skating nowhere near as elegant or sophisticated as someone like Abbott, who has a lyrical and somewhat introverted style. It's hard to say who's better, I mean Joubert has the track record on his side, but if they went head to head and both skated cleanly it would probably be very close. I guess what I'm trying to say is it comes down to preferences, different strokes for different folks. In skating, powerful and flashy seems to do just as well as elegant and sophisticated so long as you have the jumps to back it up. I prefer Risa to Gracie, but recognize Gracie's talent and understand why she is in 1st, her skating leaves a big, bold impression while Risa is impressive in a more subdued, understated (though beautiful) way. I would have had Risa ahead in PCS but I agree with the standings as Gracie deserves her huge GOE.
 
Last edited:

samba

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
What was the reason that USFS did not send Gold to JGP earlier? I did not see jammed pack talents in JGP ladies this year. US might end up with only one ladies in JPF since this is the last event :disapp:.
 
Last edited:

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
What was the reason that USFS did not send Gold to JGP earlier? I did not see jammed pack talents in JGP ladies this year. US might end up with only one ladies in JPF since this is the last event :disapp:.

Basically, Gracie had a disastrous performance at sectionals and did not make Nationals and they use the results from Nationals to determine who gets spots. They take summer competitions into account too, that's how Gracie got a spot, but her nationals results were not good enough to get too. In reality the only people who got two spots were Courtney Hicks (1st place, Junior) , Vanessa Lam (7th pace, Senior) and Samantha Cesario (Qualified for nationals with a first place at sectionals and regionals but WD). Yasmin Siraj (8th place, senior) also had two spots, but gave one up so she could prepare for Regionals. Ashley Cain (6th junior) ended up getting that second spot

The ones who got one spot were: Lauren Dinh (2nd, junior); Katarina Kulgeykom (3rd, junior); McKinzie Daniels (4th junior); Hannah Miller (1st, novice) and Gracie Gold came to the top for that last spot, beating out Leah Keiser and Angela Wang (who both did not qualify for Nationals).

Obviously, this should spur on the whole "how much should nationals determine world spots" debate we saw at the senior level last year.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
The ice dance competition makes the composition of the JGPF a nail biter. It looks like Y&M have a commanding lead. If K&M rebound to 2nd, then neither US couple will make it (A&E or B&M). That looks entirely possible. The shock is Shtork & Rand in second place! A great performance for the home team:

1 Anna YANOVSKAIA / Sergei MOZGOV RUS 59.48 32.51 26.97 6.71 6.36 6.89 6.75 6.93 0.00 #22
2 Irina SHTORK / Taavi RAND EST 52.16 28.36 23.80 5.96 5.64 6.07 6.04 6.00 0.00 #11
3 Mackenzie BENT / Garrett MACKEEN CAN 51.25 28.50 22.75 5.75 5.54 5.75 5.79 5.61 0.00 #20
4 Evgenia KOSIGINA / Nikolai MOROSHKIN RUS 51.02 25.42 25.60 6.46 6.11 6.32 6.54 6.50 0.00 #9
5 Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERON FRA 49.89 26.06 24.83 6.14 5.82 6.43 6.32 6.29 1.00 #15
6 Anna NAGORNYUK / Viktor KOVALENKO UZB 46.74 23.92 22.82 5.79 5.43 5.79 5.79 5.71 0.00 #17
7 Lolita YERMAK / Alexander LIUBCHENKO UKR 46.51 24.57 21.94 5.54 5.07 5.64 5.50 5.61 0.00 #6
8 Olivia SMART / Joseph BUCKLAND GBR 43.30 24.50 18.80 4.71 4.46 4.64 4.89 4.75 0.00 #5
9 Sara AGHAI / Jussiville PARTANEN FIN 43.11 24.14 18.97 4.75 4.46 4.82 4.82 4.82 0.00 #12
10 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Michael BRAMANTE USA 42.06 21.64 20.42 5.18 4.89 5.18 5.29 5.00 0.00 #3
11 Laura BOUTARY / Mahil CHANTELAUZE FRA 41.69 23.28 18.41 4.54 4.29 4.75 4.71 4.68 0.00 #2
12 Viktoria KAVALIOVA / Yurii BIELIAIEV BLR 41.57 22.51 19.06 4.75 4.64 4.86 4.82 4.75 0.00 #14
13 Natalia KALISZEK / Michal KALISZEK POL 41.25 24.85 16.40 4.32 4.04 4.11 4.18 3.89 0.00 #10
14 Victoria BAUSBACK / Demid ROKACHEV SUI 38.51 22.29 17.22 4.32 4.11 4.39 4.50 4.21 1.00 #4
15 Ria SCHIFFNER / Julian Konstantin SALATZKI GER 37.33 20.72 16.61 4.32 3.93 4.21 4.18 4.11 0.00 #19
16 Cortney MANSOUR / Daryn ZHUNUSSOV KAZ 32.75 17.53 15.22 3.89 3.64 3.86 3.89 3.75 0.00 #13
17 Olga JAKUSHINA / Aleksandrs GRISHINS LAT 31.43 16.27 15.16 3.96 3.79 3.82 3.82 3.61 0.00 #8
18 Ilona BIRGELAITE / Aivaras STRAVINSKAS LTU 30.07 18.00 12.07 3.11 2.86 3.11 3.14 2.89 0.00 #7
19 Natalia JANCOSEK / Petr SEKNICKA SVK 29.57 18.39 11.18 2.96 2.75 2.86 2.93 2.54 0.00 #1
20 Adrienn SZEMES / Daniel SZENASI HUN 28.63 14.85 13.78 3.50 3.32 3.39 3.57 3.43 0.00 #16
21 Hanna-Maria TAMMO / Geido KAPP EST 22.98 12.33 10.65 2.79 2.57 2.75 2.82 2.43 0.00 #18
22 Viktoria-Laura LOHMUS / Andrei DAVODOV EST 21.44 11.85 10.59 2.64 2.61 2.64 2.82 2.54 1.00 #21


Here's the protocol. K&M got only a level 1 for their last lift.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpest2011/jgpest2011_JuniorIceDance_SD_Scores.pdf
 
Last edited:

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
I'm a bit baffled by the Short Dance protocols, for some of the couples for whom this is their second JGP this season. There seems to be a lot of differences in what the Talinn technical controller is giving TES credit for--and in many cases, really downgrading levels and other features. I'm not so surprised by incremental improvements, as you would expect that between couples' first and second outings. But I find it hard to believe that couples that had previously had elements called one way by a previous technical panel, all of a sudden have backslid in just 2-4 weeks. I'd be scratching my head if I was some of these couples looking at my protocols. Hawayek/Bramante's base score loss 15% of it's value between Romania and here.

Admittedly, I struggle with understanding dance judging as I'm not as up to speed on IJS as with singles/pairs. And I don't completely get the YYY-NNN stuff on the compulsory step parts. But just notice that what couples are getting Y's on are often completely different in Tailinn than what they got the Y's on previously. Is it possible to change your well-practiced dance that much? All these couples? :confused:
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, it's possible. But there is also inconsistency in tech panels. You will also note that a team that got all Y's on the first iteration of the pattern dance can get all NNN on the second iteration. Some of this stuff is very, very picky and depends on exact distances, and hitting the step on the correct beat, so if you get a bit behind, you also can be in trouble.

I know the senior rhumba better than the cha cha, so this example is from the rhumba. The first Y/N is for whether both members of the team had the correct 3 edges distinct on a very fast step (step 3). It's very easy for one of the 2 team members to hit a flat rather than an edge for one of those 3 edges. So if any of those is a flat, it's N and not Y. And the camera angle can be crucial.

In the case of K&M, they completely messed up their last lift, getting a level 1.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Pairs results:

1 Katherine BOBAK / Ian BEHARRY CAN 147.72 2 1
2 Britney SIMPSON / Matthew BLACKMER USA 141.28 3 2
3 Jessica CALALANG / Zack SIDHU USA 139.32 1 3
4 Natalja ZABIJAKO / Sergei KULBACH EST 129.88 7 4
5 Klara KADLECOVA / Petr BIDAR CZE 129.18 5 5
6 Valeria GRECHUKHINA / Andrei FILONOV RUS 127.83 4 6
7 Magdalena KLATKA / Radoslaw CHRUSCINSKI POL 115.07 8 7
8 Ekaterina KRUTSKIKH / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 112.37 6 10
9 Maria PALIAKOVA / Mikhail FOMICHEV BLR 109.01 9 8
10 Camille MENDOZA / Christopher BOYADJI FRA 103.36 10 9
11 Alexandra RODRIGUEZ / Aritz MAESTU ESP 91.30 13 11
12 Rachel EPSTEIN / Dmitry EPSTEIN NED 85.97 12 12
13 Elizaveta USMANTSEVA / Vladislav LYSOY UKR 85.75 11 13
14 Veera KESTILA / Callum BULLARD AUS 71.49 14 14


This is quite exciting, because unless I did the tie-breakers incorrectly, the top three teams have all qualified for the JGPF!

B&S and B&B are already in with their original scores. With 15 added to B&B and 13 added to B&S, they jump up to second and third place in the standings (28 points each) behind Han & Cong in first. I believe that B&S win the total score tie breaker for second.

http://www.isuresults.com/events/jgp2011/jgpspairs.htm

4th is Xiaoyu YU / Yang JIN
5th is Ekaterina PETAIKINA / Maxim KURDUYKOV
6th is Calang & Sidhu


2 American teams, 1Canadian teams, 1 Russian, 2 Chinese, I think?
 
Last edited:

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
Doris, you are quite right. Here's the official result.

PLACE 1 - 6: QUALIFIED FOR ISU JUNIOR GRAND PRIX OF FIGURE SKATING FINAL


1 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 15 15 30 319.22
2 Britney SIMPSON / Matthew BLACKMER USA 15 13 28 282.70
3 Katherine BOBAK / Ian BEHARRY CAN 13 15 28 280.26
4 Xiaoyu YU / Yang JIN CHN 13 13 26 294.07
5 Ekaterina PETAIKINA / Maxim KURDUYKOV RUS 9 11 20 272.33
6 Jessica CALALANG / Zack SIDHU USA 9 11 262.13

Congrats to all the finalists. :love: Yey, two US teams! :clap: :clap:
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Congrats to all of these teams. And a special shout-out to Katie Bobak and Ian Beharry.... they've only been skating together a few months, and have achieved fantastic results. I think they have another year left at Junior, as well. Just thrilled!! :)
 

ankka

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
What I found VERY distracting in the SD is that almost all tthe couples try to look sexy which is not at all age-appropriate for Juniors. I mean, you can dance latin dances and put the emphasis on the rythms and having fun as opposed to "mature" interpretation (read: sexy). Also, what's up with the guys wearing sheer shirts with nipples showing? :eek:

BUT: I did enjoy Yanovskaia/Mozgov's skating's energy a lot (even with the nipple problem).
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Bobak/Beharry are the real deal. Simpson/Blackmer are awesome. Now, if Sui/Han make the Senior GPF (not likely as the field is a lot deeper this year), they'll likely withdraw from the JGPF, which would make it even more interesting.
 
Top