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Thread: JGP Tallinn Entries

  1. #91
    Currently frozen as a popsicle Chemistry66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    AFAIK yes. This JGP event gave her a bye through regionals, but sectionals isn't for another few weeks, so I assume she will be there as she doesn't have another international assignment around that time.

    As as for "skipping the JGP", even if Gracie opts to do GP next season (which I think she probably should considering her age and that she won this JGP with one of the deepest fields handily) she still would have competed on the JGP this season, so it doesn't seem as arbitrary as Agnes's decision last season. Of course, if Gracie doesn't medal at Junior Worlds then giving the JGP another go round might not be a bad idea, but considering the field, she could very well end off the podium and still score 170+!
    If she's got a bye through regionals, IceNetwork doesn't seem to know it...she's on the roster I linked to in my post above.

  2. #92
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemistry66 View Post
    If she's got a bye through regionals, IceNetwork doesn't seem to know it...she's on the roster I linked to in my post above.
    Speaking of which, how does Samantha Cesario have a bye for her regionals? Her regionals are the same time as Gracie's so she couldn't get out of it due to JGP. (Sylvia, can you explain?)

    ETA: It looks like per Sylvia's site that Gracie does indeed have a bye (though she's listed on the roster).
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 10-15-2011 at 10:14 PM.

  3. #93
    Custom Title LeCygne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Vanessa Lam was in 7th. And the reason she didn't get to JW was because Agnes and Christina placed above her in 4th and 5th and I think Courtney Hicks got in automatically as the junior nationals champion.

    In any case I agree with you, I think it was better for her to make her one statement during JGP and then focus on Nationals. Let's face it, while she's great, there's something to be said about conquering your prior demon (in her case, Midwestern sectionals).
    Thanks for the correction. I just rewatched Vanessa Lam's Nationals LP recently and remembered that she did well, but I forgot about Christina and Agnes. I can't imagine if Christina, Agnes, Vanessa, and Gracie were all in Senior Nationals vying for Junior Worlds spots (in addition to Cesario and the other JGP'ers). The US has had so many promising and successful juniors recently - if only one would translate to the senior circuit..

    Gracie kind of reminds me of Christina Gao when she suddenly had a miraculous summer of 2009 and broke onto the JGP stage, wowing people with her jumps and medaling at the JGPF.. Then at 2010 Nationals the TV commentators all called her the future of the sport. But the consistency was never really there with Christina and she never scored like Gracie just did, so we'll see..

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemistry66 View Post
    If she's [Gold] got a bye through regionals, IceNetwork doesn't seem to know it...she's on the roster I linked to in my post above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Speaking of which, how does Samantha Cesario have a bye for her regionals? Her regionals are the same time as Gracie's so she couldn't get out of it due to JGP. (Sylvia, can you explain?)

    ETA: It looks like per Sylvia's site that Gracie does indeed have a bye (though she's listed on the roster).
    Hannah Miller was initially listed in the EGL Regionals Junior Ladies starting order on IceNetwork 2 weeks ago like Gracie Gold currently is for UGL Regionals -- both received "late" byes due to their JGP assignments as alternates and their internationals being 7 or fewer days before or after Regionals. I assume their names were not submitted as byes to the USFS Regional accountants early enough to be removed from their respective SP draws.

    Samantha Cesario qualified for a bye through her Regionals in 2 ways -- because she won the Senior Ladies event at Eastern Sectionals last year and also because her 2nd JGP in Estonia was the week before North Atlantics.

    Here's the link to my post in the US Regionals thread that contains a link to my unofficial US Sectionals qualifiers page and list of known byes: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post582393

  5. #95
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    So do these girls get a bye to Nationals or do they still have to qualify?

  6. #96
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    Of all the U.S. JGP skaters/teams, only those who qualify for the JGP Final receive a bye through Sectionals to Nationals (follow link posted above for my Sectionals unofficial rosters-in-progress).

  7. #97
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    So do these girls get a bye to Nationals or do they still have to qualify?
    Gold has to go to Sectionals. If she had 2 events and had qualified for the final, she would have gotten a bye.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeloving View Post
    Risa presentation is even more beautiful when she grow up, better than many senior in my opinion. Her posture and flow on ice is amazing. She is like mini Arakawa + Chen.

    Personally, I prefer her presentation more than gold (she totally deserve to win here, and USFSA should give her 2 grand prix) and other juniors this year.
    I agree, after watching their programs again i had a feeling they gave Gracie too many points because she didn't seem to be that much better than Risa considering the sp and the lp altogether...

  9. #99
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ordinary person View Post
    I agree, after watching their programs again i had a feeling they gave Gracie too many points because she didn't seem to be that much better than Risa considering the sp and the lp altogether...
    I guess every one has a different opinion on "that much better" but I still think Gracie deserved to win by a good margin. Just on the tech side alone, Gracie's base value was 7.65 points more than Risa's. That would already account for more than 50 percent of the 14.86 point margin Gracie had in the competition.

    Gracie got 12.11 points in just +GOE vs 7.98 for Risa, a 4.13 point difference. That's 11.78 when added with the BV difference.

    Everyone is wondering if Gracie should have gotten more points in PCS. Okay between the two programs, Gracie's PCS was 77.77 vs 74.69 for Risa, 3.08 points.While Risa is quite elegant and has great skating skills, Gracie also has some great skills (i.e. speed/transition/execution) that would keep her in the PCS game.

    Also, quite frankly, Risa's somewhat tentative skating in the long program probably lost her some points as well. While Gracie made mistakes, they didn't interrupt the program at all. (That single loop almost looked like it was planned, given how calmly she moved on; same with the lower level spin.) that's going to help you in that execution mark.

    I would say that perhaps that the judges could have scored Risa higher in PCS but it would not be a runaway like everyone is insisting. i would say perhaps, at best, five points over Gracie. So if you added the difference plus five points (8.08 points), you still have Gracie winning by 6.78 points, which would make sense given her stronger tech content.

  10. #100
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    The thing Gracie had over the entire group of skaters (including Risa) was flow in and out of jumps (and this IS accounted for in PCS). If you watch her flow, she is almost as fast flowing OUT of her jumps as she is going in. There were several jumps that Risa was much slower on the way out of her jumps than going in like she was eeking them out. This is going to hurt the PE and SS marks.

  11. #101
    Custom Title ordinary person's Avatar
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    Yes Gracie had a little more speed and height but her jumps seemed a bit stiff when she landed them whereas Risa's looked more elegant nevertheless you're right about the rest.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Hannah Miller was initially listed in the EGL Regionals Junior Ladies starting order on IceNetwork 2 weeks ago like Gracie Gold currently is for UGL Regionals -- both received "late" byes due to their JGP assignments as alternates and their internationals being 7 or fewer days before or after Regionals. I assume their names were not submitted as byes to the USFS Regional accountants early enough to be removed from their respective SP draws.

    Samantha Cesario qualified for a bye through her Regionals in 2 ways -- because she won the Senior Ladies event at Eastern Sectionals last year and also because her 2nd JGP in Estonia was the week before North Atlantics.

    Here's the link to my post in the US Regionals thread that contains a link to my unofficial US Sectionals qualifiers page and list of known byes: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post582393
    Interesting!!! I didn't know about this bye type. Seniors only, I presume. Thanks for the info, Sylvia.

  13. #103
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    No, if you win the level you are skating in the previous year, you get a bye. Nathan Chen stayed Novice last year and had a bye all the way through to Nationals as a Novice.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by just wondering View Post
    Interesting!!! I didn't know about this bye type. Seniors only, I presume.
    Yes, Seniors only. Another example - Scott Dyer won the Senior Men's event at Eastern Sectionals last season and received a bye through the Senior Men's event at SWP Regionals this year (even though he switched regions/clubs).

    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    No, if you win the level you are skating in the previous year, you get a bye. Nathan Chen stayed Novice last year and had a bye all the way through to Nationals as a Novice.
    No, as the 2010 Novice National men's champ Chen only had a bye through Regionals last year; he had to compete at Sectionals to qualify for 2011 Nationals.

    (These are rules published in the USFS rulebook.)
    Last edited by Sylvia; 10-17-2011 at 12:38 PM.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ordinary person View Post
    Yes Gracie had a little more speed and height but her jumps seemed a bit stiff when she landed them whereas Risa's looked more elegant nevertheless you're right about the rest.
    I agree with this but watching her FS, Risa was visibly tentative and nervous. It wasn't as obvious as it was for Sam, but you could tell she was thinking through that performance. Gracie OTOH had nothing to lose and just went for it, and that was visible in her programs. Samantha's PCS in the FS were much lower than both Risa and Gracie, while in the SP all three girls had essentially equal PCS, so I really do think the nervous skating makes a difference. Risa was probably feeling the pressure of qualifying for the final and you could tell. I love Risa's skating and think she is definitely more elegant than Gracie, at least at this point, but I think Gracie having no pressure and skating with all guns blazing made her seem more impressive than if she was facing pressure to make the final herself. So I'm ok with it. 50.51 is pretty high PCS for a junior lady as is, so I'm not too worried about Risa. If she skates well at the JGPF I think she can definitely medal. If she had rotated the lutz, her score likely would have been around 108, maybe 110, which is pretty impressive. I doubt she will beat Julia but I think she has a good shot at finishing ahead of all the others. I'd love of podium of Julia, Risa, and Zijun.

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