The greatest pair skating performances

Buttercup · Sep 23, 2011

jcoates said:
I think the last two posts illustrate why T/M have not been named by most postesr in this thread. They were very good, but not inspiring; probably due in part to the fact that S/Z generated such a sustained emotional response from audiences no matter how they skated.

Re Shen/Zhao, that's an opinion, not a fact

Clearly they did not generate such a response from everyone. For me, I didn't like it when they played up the romantic/passionate aspect, and early in the Olympic season, I realized I enjoyed S/S's skating and programs much more. I was happy for Shen/Zhao for what they'd achieved, but for better and for worse, they were no longer the pair I'd fallen for all those years ago. As to why they felt the need to change - if you read The Second Mark, they worked to make their style more appealing to western judges and audiences because Bin Yao knew that doing so would make them winners; they tried pushing on the tech side, but still couldn't compete on the second mark. So they did what they had to do to win.

T/M were not romantic, and they didn't really have the ability to be playful, either, so their range seemed narrow and it wasn't easy to respond to them emotionally. But what they did, they did very well, and they were really, really strong when it mattered most in 2006. Also, Tatiana actually held her landing positions, which is something I miss in today's skating.

christinaskater · Sep 23, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHxr-zsNEPg

T/M skated really well especially during the Olympics but there was no emotion in the skate, no facial expressions. It's like they are going through motions and doing everything perfectly but without heart.

skatinginbc · Sep 23, 2011

drivingmissdaisy said:
It's what S&Z did so well when they stuck with romantic pieces that featured their connection with each other that moved many of us. I think they would have failed trying to pull off a program like the Beethoven Sonata of G&G in 1994, where the subdued music seems to focus your attention more on the skating and less about how they skaters are emoting.

On the other hand, I think G&G would have failed if they skated to S&Z's programs. For one thing, they could not pull off S&Z's "pig throw" with such abandonment like throwing a pig straight to the moon. As ugly as the technique was, it shocked and awed the audience. It was rough and explosive and, believe it or not, artistic, sometimes more so than G&G's cotton-candy style of beauty. Indeed, art does not always entail sweet and smooth beauty. A portrait of a horrible, ugly face if excellently and meaningfully done could be a master piece of art. Now, would Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze fail if they skated to G&G's or S&Z's programs? No, I think they would still do a decent, good enough job. They were so artistically versatile and technically well-balanced that they seemed able to pull off any piece of music or program. That's why they are the best team in my book.

christinaskater · Sep 23, 2011

The problem with B/S was they rarely had a clean program but when they do it truly is a classic. They are like Sasha Cohen, brilliant in every aspect but rarely delivers that perfect program- there would always be a moment of flaw. But even with a mistake I still love B/S!

Vash01 · Sep 23, 2011

jcoates said:
I think the last two posts illustrate why T/M have not been named by most postesr in this thread. They were very good, but not inspiring; probably due in part to the fact that S/Z generated such a sustained emotional response from audiences no matter how they skated.

I loved T&M's skating, I was never crazy about S&Z. I found them overrated on chat boards.

Vash01 · Sep 23, 2011

skatinginbc said:
Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze 1999 World Long Program was what first brought my eye to their artistic expressions. From the very beginning of the program, mood was created by Elena's face, not Yoshie Onda's deer-caught-in-the-spotlight face, nor Yuna Kim's exaggerated angst and sorrow, but a "blank" face that spoke a thousand words. Their statue-like poses in many places of the program, though simple to the eye, conveyed more than the beauty of their body lines. They fittingly amplified the mood in relation to the music as if static sculptures that tell dynamic stories. They went beyond the beauty of pure skating by adding heart and soul to their choreography, which I found lacking in G/G's programs.

I loved both B&S and G&G. It's a matter of opinion/taste, but I don't think G&G lacked heart & soul in their choreography. It was just a different style. They were from the Moscow school of skating. B&S were from St.Petersburg (although Elena had trained in Moscow early in her career). As eligible skaters G&G's moves were mostly traditional, if you leave out the split quad twist they did early on. They developed as pro skaters after the 1990 worlds, and their skating became more creative. I loved the perfection they brought to the ice. B&S had Tamara Moskvina's choreography/coaching which was very creative. Although she did not choreograph most of their programs (I believe Valse Sentimentale was hers and half of Meditation from Thais was hers), you see her influence. B&S expressed the music through their body lines, movement on the ice, and they were perhaps the most lyrical of all pairs. You really see that in Concert for Coloratura, with their lovely light green, simple costumes, with the emphasis on their bodies and the skating expressing the music (choreographed by Matveev). Nothing is overstated. Everything is flowing with the music.

I loved both pairs (and M&D too), and I often have difficulty picking one over the other.

lionmilk · Sep 23, 2011

skatinginbc said:
Now, would Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze fail if they skated to G&G's or S&Z's programs? No, I think they would still do a decent, good enough job. They were so artistically versatile and technically well-balanced that they seemed able to pull off any piece of music or program. That's why they are the best team in my book.

exactly!!!....u nailed the hammer on the head....B/S could pull off anything u threw at them...soft, elegant, flowing programs such as Swan Lake, Valse Sentimentale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjTIf21db4o&NR=1), Concerto for Coloratura and Lady Caliph....a theatrical number like Charlie Chaplin in which they assumed roles on the ice and portrayed them with a light, comedic side perfectly....and also programs that were all about speed, power and ticking of the elements like their Meadowland SP at the 2001 worlds....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3mFOfy_J-Q&feature=related

Mirunna · Sep 23, 2011

christinaskater said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHxr-zsNEPg

T/M skated really well especially during the Olympics but there was no emotion in the skate, no facial expressions. It's like they are going through motions and doing everything perfectly but without heart.

Skating is more than facial expression and besides I hate the "O" faces some of the skaters make during the program. That's not facial expression. I always thought that Tatiana Totmianina is an Ice Queen who expresses the music with her entire body. I loved her hand movements, her landing positions, basically everything about her. I always felt she had a more subtle way to express herself and I also understand why many find this team boring. But I loved the feeling I got when they entered the ice and I knew they will deliver. They always did, skated with confidence and power, like champions, time after time. Not one pair after them managed to come near their consistency. Their 2006 LP is not the perfect choice for them but their SP the same year is a masterpiece which to me, is second only to B/S 2002 SP. I would also add their 2005 Sp, to the music Ave Maria.

Olympia · Sep 23, 2011

Buttercup, thanks for reminding me about the book The Second Mark. I'm sure you're right about Yao Bin's making S/Z retool to be more appealing to Western judges. But the fact is they also had to be able to retool. There's an old joke about how if you can fake sincerity, you've got it made. It's not that easy to muster up emotional power. Obviously they had the potential, or they would have failed in their efforts and slid down the rankings. After all, presumably Yao Bin also told his other pairs to skate in a way that's more appealing to Western judges, and I'm not all that sure Zhang and Zhang hit that particular target.

"Pig throw"--throwing a pig all the way to the moon....what an amazing image! It really highlights their astonishing power as skaters. Though Xue Shen is deserving of a better animal totem by far. Swan, otter, panther...but not something stiff-spined and rotund.

I love to read what everyone says about favorite couples. It brings the skaters to life before my very eyes. But for me, once we get to this level of gorgeous skating, I can't choose just one pair anymore than I can choose one single favorite composer. (I have a top three, and then a second three close behind.) I expect this means I'm greedy. I just love all of these monumentally talented and accomplished pairs. They all take my breath away. G&G, B&S, Dmitriev with any partner, S&Z, Underhill and Martini--and anyone I've left out--how could I possibly choose? S&S should be there in the mix as well.

bsfan · Sep 23, 2011

DianaSelene said:
After 2004, I think T/M really grew up and became a great pair. I personally believe they were much better than S/Z.

I feel the same. They are the pair that I can sit down and watch and enjoy. Their skating is art. I never like facial expressions from some pairs. It makes me laugh.

FlattFan · Sep 23, 2011

B/S Valse Sentimentale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjTIf21db4o&NR=1

K/S Valse Sentimentale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3DHIjSILCA

Comparing K/S to B/S, K/S aren't so bad.

Seems like a lot of people think B/S are the best. Ever. And most think K/S are bronze contenders at best.

Over the years, K/S got some amazing SPs, one of the best LPs I have ever seen. This program deserves a mention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF9B5xsmAEg

Vash01 · Sep 23, 2011

Mirunna said:
Skating is more than facial expression and besides I hate the "O" faces some of the skaters make during the program. That's not facial expression. I always thought that Tatiana Totmianina is an Ice Queen who expresses the music with her entire body. I loved her hand movements, her landing positions, basically everything about her. I always felt she had a more subtle way to express herself and I also understand why many find this team boring. But I loved the feeling I got when they entered the ice and I knew they will deliver. They always did, skated with confidence and power, like champions, time after time. Not one pair after them managed to come near their consistency. Their 2006 LP is not the perfect choice for them but their SP the same year is a masterpiece which to me, is second only to B/S 2002 SP. I would also add their 2005 Sp, to the music Ave Maria.

ITA with everything you wrote. Both Elena and Tatiana had subtle ways of expressing themselves, through their skating and their whole bodies. I am not against showing emotion in the face, but to me that is not skating. Only skating is skating, and B&S and T&M were both marvelous pairs, in the same ranks as G&G and M&D.

Vash01 · Sep 23, 2011

FlattFan said:
B/S Valse Sentimentale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjTIf21db4o&NR=1

K/S Valse Sentimentale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3DHIjSILCA

Comparing K/S to B/S, K/S aren't so bad.

Seems like a lot of people think B/S are the best. Ever. And most think K/S are bronze contenders at best.

Over the years, K/S got some amazing SPs, one of the best LPs I have ever seen. This program deserves a mention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF9B5xsmAEg

K&S's record shows that they are a silver or bronze team. That is not to say that are a bad team, but they have just not made it to the top. I respect Yuko for her toughness, her ability to land throw quads. On the artistic/presentation side she is nowhere close to Elena B. and many other Russian pairs, because she does not have the lines, posture and lyricism. Again, she is a good skater, but just not a great one. K&S have some pretty good performances to their credit. I loved their LP in 2010- for the first time they seemed to have the right music for them. Their SP at the 2010 Olympics was very good and should have earned more marks than it did. However, they did not deliver in the LP. May be some day they will, but they have a lot of competition from younger Russian pairs now. I do like K&S and I have always hoped that K&S would win a world championship, but even if they did, I would not put them in the same group as the past great Russian pairs.

BTW if you really compare the two programs skated to that music (and I believe K&S did not use it for the entire 4:30 min), you will notice the lines and flow of B&S- they were like a single thread throughout, which is very very difficult to do.

skatinginbc · Sep 23, 2011

Vash01 said:
Both Elena and Tatiana had subtle ways of expressing themselves

Sometimes a "blank face" could enhance artistic expressions. For example, the masks of Jabberwocky (America's Best Dance Crew Champions) added extra meanings to their dance. Elena Berezhnaya's "blank" face as I pointed out in a previous thread spoke a thousand words, as it invited the viewers to project their own emotions to fill out that blank. Tatiana's, unfortunately, not only failed to enhance meanings but also took away the artistic feelings they tried to create through their bodies and skating, for it was not "blank" but "cold", so bitingly cold that inhibited any other interpretation but "cold", that kept the appreciative eyes of the audience away, and that often disagreed with the music they were skating to. Jamie Salé had a "bitchy" face when not emoting. Thank goodness, she only did it when skating to Tristan & Isolde, which deviates from conventional harmony and tonality and thus was compatible with her bitchy, unsmiling face (In other words, her unsmiling poker face enhanced the expression of the music).

skatinginbc · Sep 23, 2011

christinaskater said:
The problem with B/S was they rarely had a clean program

If truth be known, I was hardly B&S's fan when they were on the scene. From watching Canadian TV, I felt indignant at the "foot-tapping" scandal in 1999 worlds where S&Z's clean program failed to score higher than B&S's flawed program, and at the "blatant cheating" in 2002 Olympic where S&S's perfect Love Story lost to another flawed program of B&S. My new appreciation for B&S's skating was a result of COP, which changed my perspectives and leaned me toward a well-balanced performance. Under such standards and criterion, Patrick Chan's flawed Phantom was deemed better than Takahiko Kozuka's perfect long in the last Worlds. I am biased toward all-round skaters I would say, maybe brain-washed by the new judging system.

silverpond · Sep 25, 2011

In my humble opinion, Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergei Grinkov were the finest pairs skaters of all time, in terms of blending artistry and athleticism into a cohesive whole. Their performances were a joy to behold, and the love that developed and flourished between these two was so evident in their skating. :love:

I loved their 1988 and 1994 Olympic short and long programs. Theirs was a gorgeous blend of "what skating is all about". Aside from these programs, there were:

-- The Rodin number -- based on poses in Rodin's sculptures.

-- "The Man I Love" - a Stars on Ice number from the 1994/1995 tour.

-- Gershwin tap-dance number, which enabled Katya and Sergei to win the 1994 World Professional Championship.

-- "Porgy and Bess" number of 1994.

-- "Out of Tears" - skated to the Rolling Stones, from the 1994/1995 Stars on Ice tour.

The greatest pair skating performances

Buttercup

christinaskater

skatinginbc

christinaskater

Vash01

Vash01

lionmilk

Mirunna

Olympia

bsfan

FlattFan

Match Penalty

Vash01

Vash01

skatinginbc

skatinginbc

silverpond

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