All Things Canadian Ice Dance

After this weekend, the battle in canadian ice dancing for the world team this season got more interesting (like it wasn't enough already).
I/P debuted on the wrong foot, R/H with the right one in the GP. Their race could be a nail biter. There was so much gushing going on last year for I/P, that it made me feel uneasy, because one season doesn't make a career, and even last season was quite uneven for them.
On another hand, R/H didn't make much of a progress last year, but after hearing Kharis's Dad perished a year ago, now I am not surprised. That is a major hit for a teenager, so nobody should be surprised by their stagnation. I was just caught totally by surprise hearing it, that no one mentioned it before.
They have made some clear improvement this year though, more speed and power across the ice is evident. P/I looked quite fragile on another hand and slow. Their obvious chemistry will not make up for the technical deficiences.
They are up for a battle to preserve their medal at canadians.

What I find most disturbing about P&I is that they have yet to skate a clean SD in international competition, and that when they fall, they become completely disoriented and don't get right back into the program.

If I were SC, it would worry me even more.

dorispulaski said:

What I find most disturbing about P&I is that they have yet to skate a clean SD in international competition, and that when they fall, they become completely disoriented and don't get right back into the program.

If I were SC, it would worry me even more.

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Doris, SC luckily do not have to rely on P/I. Both V/M and W/P are still young in terms of age for ice dancing despite being around for so long, they are only 22/24. They could easily stick around not for only one OG, would they want to.

herios, This is true.

herios said:

After this weekend, the battle in canadian ice dancing for the world team this season got more interesting (like it wasn't enough already).
I/P debuted on the wrong foot, R/H with the right one in the GP. Their race could be a nail biter. There was so much gushing going on last year for I/P, that it made me feel uneasy, because one season doesn't make a career, and even last season was quite uneven for them.
On another hand, R/H didn't make much of a progress last year, but after hearing Kharis's Dad perished a year ago, now I am not surprised. That is a major hit for a teenager, so nobody should be surprised by their stagnation. I was just caught totally by surprise hearing it, that no one mentioned it before.
They have made some clear improvement this year though, more speed and power across the ice is evident. P/I looked quite fragile on another hand and slow. Their obvious chemistry will not make up for the technical deficiences.
They are up for a battle to preserve their medal at canadians.

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Absolutely agree with all of this. There is something very special about I/P. But all the talent in the world does not make up for hard work. They really do look fragile and unprepared. I wonder if they spent much more time in focused training off-ice to improve their overall strength and conditioning their results would improve? It may help them avoid injuries as well. And give them more confidence when they compete. (Tessa Virtue has done that, and is glowing with health, confidence and joy!) They sailed through Junior, but they need to not believe their own press, and understand that past results do not guarantee success at Senior. It's a whole new world, and they are the smaller frogs in a big pond. They are going to have to earn respect through hard work and results every year.

For R/H, if P/I get themselves together over the next few months, I think it will definitely be a battle for 3rd. R/H have made a great deal of improvement over the Summer, and I'm really proud of them for sticking together in both the good times and the not so good times. Some teams would have parted ways in their situation. They are definitely the better team right now. But what they really need to do is work on their unison and posture - the details and lines that P/I have so naturally. R/H had a great debut. But sometimes the legs looked a little wild, not quite in line, not as close together, and so on. And posture is an ongoing issue with Scarboro teams. It's just really obvious with these 2. (And can someone please tell her that thing she wears in her hair in the SD is really not flattering? I also think she needs a different, longer-cut skirt on the dress.)

Okay, time for a good rant ! I've had to store up a lot , because I was without a modem for a few days, then when I got a new one, I had other crises with things breaking down to sort out. ( Makes me feel like I've been gagged for a week. )

I'm really looking forward to a first glimpse of W/P's programs this week ; may they be fabulous ( But if she comes out in blue for the SD , I'll strongly suspect SC of a really silly strategy !) . And of course , I'm eager to see how V/M's programs are progressing.

Of the 2 couples we've seen in the race for Canada 3 , I can't say I'm totally pleased with either , so far, and will be watching to see how they look at their next events. They each have different challenges to deal with. Both have made some really poor choices IMO.. though different from each other.

Ralph / Hill
These two have obviously worked hard and made considerable progress. They have a good FD with pretty good FD costumes this year.( But I wouldn't put Asher in a tight shirt, it only accentuates the sway in his back ) They still have quite a way to go to really improve their posture and other issues, but the improvement is noticeable.. I think their placement at SA was deserved, and don't think they were undermarked .This is the best program I've seen from them to date , in both concept and execution.

Their SD is just “off” if you ask me. As I've said before , I don't like the Harlem Nocturne use ( for all the well documented reasons). Her costume is pretty much a disaster ( it's a bit more covered than at the beginning of the season, but that's the only positive thing you can say for it )..and I'm sorry, but I really can't buy Kharis as sexy. She's just too sweetly girl-next-door – which is not a bad thing to be. They should just go with that , it would seem so much more believable. Thank goodness they no longer have her biting her lower lip , but the jaw thing they've replaced it with isn't much better. A playful, touristy kind of SD along the lines of P/B's could have worked really , really well for them. ( Something with a skirt ?)
So , whatever their progress in skating related areas , progress in judgement is a bit more elusive . When I read that their exhibition is to “Nature Boy”.. with Asher shirtless again , my stomach sank. Please, please, stop.:disapp:

Paul / Islam
I'm sure everyone knows I love this team's potential , but that doesn't mean I think they can do no wrong. Still, I can't quite agree with doris' assessment . They've only really had 3 international events at the senior level. At SC last year, they didn't have a long delay after their slight misstep and with injury being a factor in the other 2 competitions , it might be a bit premature to tar them with that brush. It remains to be seen if they can pull it together by NHK, and I suppose that will depend on how hard she's able to train now , post injury. If she really is well now, they'd certainly have time to fix a lot before Canadians. What we've seen so far may just be the result of not being able to skate for weeks.

Now here come the “ Buts”...Firstly, I think the concept or “story” behind their program is extremely ill advised in this “uplifting” era. For the second time, I read /heard the words “abusive relationship” used to describe the program...this time from Lori Nichol commentating for CBC. Dreadful mistake. Either offer no explanation , which would be fine with me ( and according to ISU guidelines, explanations are supposed to be unnecessary ), or say something like “ a couple forgives and makes up after a quarrel “ or “ a couple overcomes jealousy through love “ There could be lots of alternatives.
In pj's original report , she explained that the “uplift “ was to be found in the woman's capacity to forgive.. Any adult knows that's a crock, and the proper response in an abusive siuation would be to get out, the sooner the better . Anyone who heard that description can only feel depressed by their final pose , knowing real abuse never ends. If this story ( or unfortunate wording ) was P/I's idea..could no older and wiser person have dissuaded them ? David I ? David W ? SC ?
If the idea was suggested to them by someone else , that person's advice should be ignored in future. In either case, if I was David Islam , I'd be contacting CBC and TSN immediately and making sure that term was expunged from any future scripts. This is a very serious topic and if drug addiction isn't a suitable topic for ice dance, I don't see how “ an abusive relationship “ can be. Fortunately, there's no overt violence in the choreography and a rewritten , more benign synopsis would demand no choreographic changes , except perhaps for the final pose.

Secondly, I don't want to make anyone faint , but I think they've gone off in a wrong direction with their costumes.....Oh, theyre tasteful, as usual..beautifully cut, impeccably sewn , but still a miss for me. I've got just a small quibble with Mitch's look , as I did last year. I don't like to see his pant leg break quite so much at the boot..makes the pants seem too baggy ... and I don't think you actually need pockets on the ice , so why have them gaping at the side ? If you can't go to Scott's tailor , at least stitch those babies down.
As for Alex, she has beautiful dresses for both programs, both in minight blue (or with a midnight blue effect, for the FD ).It seems like an identifying strategy, which in this case may have backfired , since they had a disasterous SD ( not what you want everyone to be remembering ). But even if both programs were clean , the statement across the 2 programs is too staid, too somber. Her SD dress needs to be fitted at the hip, to accentuate any hip action . Like the program , it's elegant and sophisticated , but needs a bit of heat. As soon as I saw it , I could see a vermillion lining for the skirt, say in a very lightweight silk, so as not to interfere with the drape of the skirt. I think something like that would provide a little needed extra oomph.

The FD dress is a bit too severe , in spite of the floaty overdress , which may have been designed to evoke a nightie and negligee , I don't know.. but if she was dressed in a warm colour , the program would seem more passionate , less despairing. Or, if the overdress was at least a lighter colour like a different blue, or deep turquoise, it would seem a little more serene and less gloomy. Also , especially with the slightly high waist and slightly full skirt, they manage to obscure Alex's beautiful lines some of the time. I think it needs to be more A-line .. a little closer fitting around the torso..more than an actual dress in that style would be. Same effect ,but better for dance. Alex's physique is about as perfectly proportioned for a dancer as you could hope to get ,and she can wear things others could not. But why create extra challenges?

If nothing else, I think a colour change would help the audience ( and that includes judges ) feel more involved in the program. Of course they would still need to polish their performance , or whatever they need to do technically , but they'd have everything else working in their favour.

I could be wrong, but I have a feeling P/I won't quite get it together this season and it'll be R/H's year. Their FD is amazing compared to what they usually do. P/I seriously looked horrible in both programs at Skate America, not just the falls but they were slooooow compared to last season and bored the heck out of me, which last season they didn't do. It seemed like they almost weren't the same team! If they continue down this road, they could lose to Harvey/Gagnon at Nationals too.

Well , I wouldn't write them off too soon.. Not long before World's someone did a little article or report with David Islam about keeping the alternates ready while still trying to focus on the next yr.,etc. He said they were working a lot on building speed then ... it's my experience and observation that when a trained dancer / athlete has to be out for illness or injury ( if it's not too serious ), once they can get back to training , they can regain ability, and things like speed much more quickly than one might expect. The body remembers how it got to that level in the first place , it's not really like they're starting from scratch.

I do agree that with the improvement they've made, R/H should be able to mount a serious challenge, but while it's just 2 1/2 weeks to NHK , it's 2 1/2 months to Nationals. ( I'm assuming , of course ,that Alex has not been more seriously injured than they've been letting on. Kurt mentioned maybe her meniscus wasn't totally healed and then he sort of slid on by . Whether he was saying too much..who knows. He can be a blurter.)

Colleen, I'm not writing them off, but it is definitely something they have to work on.

And now that you bring it up, you're right, and it gives me the cold collywobbles to think someone on their team thinks the right response to abuse is to suck it up & forgive...what other bad advice is going on there?

Well, Coleen, you make some very good points in your critique, and after reading it I totally agree with you on basically all of it. I hope the coaches of both teams read them and act accordingly.......probably too much to hope for though.

What I saw sitting close to the ice was that P&I do not have the deep edges of the top skaters and as a result are very slow. Don't know if this is because of time off of training due to injury or just poor training period. Also he needs to build up upper body strength as he has a problem particularly with low lifts (the girl always helps in overhead lifts) as he dropped her out of two of these kind of lifts in practice. They are a pretty couple on the ice but unless they spend lots and lots of time working on basic stroking they will continue to fall behind.

KKonas said:

What I saw sitting close to the ice was that P&I do not have the deep edges of the top skaters and as a result are very slow. Don't know if this is because of time off of training due to injury or just poor training period. Also he needs to build up upper body strength as he has a problem particularly with low lifts (the girl always helps in overhead lifts) as he dropped her out of two of these kind of lifts in practice. They are a pretty couple on the ice but unless they spend lots and lots of time working on basic stroking they will continue to fall behind.

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Strange because last year P&I had very strong deep edges. They also have extremely quiet edges which allows them to skate to music in the SD and FD that they are.

I think P&I need to get healthy (I thought she looked to be favouring her knee in a couple spots at SA) and she needs confidence. Right now I don't think she's very confident (probably because of the significant loss of training time per Lori Nichol on CBC).

Speaking of weak/shallow edges, Davis and White in the circular footwork in the SD didn't have good edges and they looked slow. Their rhumba patterns also looked very slow and their leg positions were not good at all.

Speaking of weak/shallow edges, Davis and White in the circular footwork in the SD didn't have good edges and they looked slow. Their rhumba patterns also looked very slow and their leg positions were not good at all.[/QUOTE]

While I agree this was not their best performance of the SD, they received +2 GOEs on skating skills from every judge on the non-touching circular steps and mostly +2 GOEs on skating skills in the Rhumba and mostly +9s on program components. Certainly they can improve.

certainly they can improve

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They would (and did) say so themselves.

I love both teams (I am happy with R/H's improvement most of all), but I really cannot see Mitch as the abusive husband. I know we're supposed to suspend our belief and focus on the dance and the music, but even then, I don't see it. They have that lovey-dovey chemistry that has made them comparable to V/M. This theme is very difficult for a dance team to carry through. I can only see a few teams in the past and the present (Krylova/Ovsiannikov, Fusar-Poli/Margaglio, Davis/White, Navarro/Bommentre, Denkova/Staviysky) who would be able to carry it off.

Definitely K&O could pull it off. For FP/M, it would be the "forgiveness" that might be hard to do, perhaps

dorispulaski said:

Definitely K&O could pull it off. For FP/M, it would be the "forgiveness" that might be hard to do, perhaps

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LoL Doris, I think FP/M would have to reverse the role in that case (I also forgot to list Grishuk/Platov, who had that You'll See program in the 90's--but as you may note, there isn't any forgiveness in that program either). I have a feeling that their coaching team (David Islam and co) made this suggestion so that they can depart from the comparison with Virtue/Moir.

doris, what did you think of P/I's National SD last season. I know you hated the "wangos" but in terms of how they skated it?

I hate the wango thing so much that it is hard for me to be fair about it. And I don't think it was a smart concept for a team that had never competed the GW before. Especially with all those requirements about what step on which beat when you can bearly hear the waltz beat there at all. I think the youngsters could have used something with a decent waltz beat.

They are still pushing and pulling each other around in the GW. There is scratching and ice chips rising.

They are a beautiful couple with nice lines, and I appreciate the quickness of their movements.

But I still hate wangoes.

doris...can't say fairer than that..