Stanford or skating? Rachael Flatt chooses both

Buttercup · Oct 8, 2011

prettykeys said:
I would honestly be thrilled if my future children turned out a little bit like her. Smart, sweet, motivated, and wanting to push herself both academically as well as athletically... There is only one other skater I know of who was enrolled in engineering as a competitive skater, and that's Jeffrey Buttle, who was also doing chemical engineering but part-time.

Did Jeffrey ever graduate though? I thought he eventually decided he'd rather do other things.

In addition to the clearly awesome Berntsson, I can think of another skater-engineer: Matthieu Jost finished a computer science degree while competing and is a certified engineer (source 1, source 2, scroll down to the end in both cases).

heyang · Oct 8, 2011

Michele Kwan didn't take a full course load due to her skating and other obligations, but she did take at least 1 or 2 classes during the season. She has said that it helped her to have something besides skating in her life.

Vash01 · Oct 8, 2011

IIRC Matt Savoie graduated from Cornell while he was competing as eligible skater.

Mathman · Oct 8, 2011

I believe Matt Savoie did his undergraduate degree and got a master's (at Illinois) while competing, but deferred starting Cornel Law School in 2005-06 in order to concentrate on making the Olympic team.

brightphoton · Oct 9, 2011

I remember Paul Wylie in an interview saying he always did well at US Nationals because there were no exams around February, but he always had a splatfest at Worlds because it coincided with his midterm exams. He wasn't a headcase, he protested, it was the stress of school. He said the during the Olympic year, he took time off of school and skated to his full potential and won his silver.

I've never enjoyed Rachael's skating, but maybe she'll surprise me at Skate Canada. I didn't think Alissa could pull off a triple-triple either, but she did that at Japan Open. On the other hand, Alissa was a headcase when she was in college, and only skated well after she graduated. So who knows.

iluvtodd · Oct 9, 2011

Whatever the case, I'm wishing Rachel all the best in both pursuits.

Layfan · Oct 9, 2011

Mrs. P said:
And maybe Rachel is one of those people who actually does better when she has more to juggle. She definitely fared quite well in 2010 while she was juggling all those AP classes. And I seem to remember that Debi Thomas won her WC while doing her studies at Standford and actually did worse when she didn't have to juggle school.

Yes, I remember either her or her mother saying something like that in 2010. I think it was her mom who said that she felt part of the reason Rachael always kept her head together at competitions was that her life wasn't completely about skating. School was also a priority.
Of course, college is a WHOLE different thing than high school. Much more challenging. But then, it's Rachael and she had her head screwed on very tightly. I was glad to read that she is taking three courses and not five or six. Otherwise, I would find it impossible. I hope her injuries are behind her and I wish her well this season. It seems like the right thing or her to give this a go. And I'm glad she is not putting off her studies. It seems in Rachael's case, school is a lot of what keeps her sane.

sidwich · Oct 10, 2011

bigsisjiejie said:
Rachael is taking just about the lightest load she can do (probably with special permission), and two of those courses are fulfillment of general requirements and likely to be the closest thing to a cakewalk for her. I believe Rachael will also take a light load next semester as well so that combining training and competitive skating will be viable for this entire season. Then she will have to face the reality of the full brunt of a Stanford engineering course load beginning her second year, and realize that doing well in her academics isn't going to be compatible with doing well at the highest levels of skating. She doesn't strike me as the type who wants to simultaneously do two things half-@ssed each. And she doesn't strike me as somebody who wants to go to university on the 8-year plan taking light loads the whole way through. Nor will Stanford likely let her. She's a smart girl and will do what's best for her long-term needs, and there's only one answer possible. I think she will retire from competitive skating after this season is over, and it when it will be apparent that her best is no longer good enough to take on the talent coming up internationally beginning in the 2012-2013 period.

Rachael's schedule looks like it's probably 12 units or so this quarter (fall-September to December), which is the lightest load she can do without some kind of special permission, which honestly, I don't think that Stanford would grant her in the first year. My guess is it would be ideal if she did another 12 units in the winter quarter (January to March) and then took 15 units or more in the spring quarter (March to June). She could also potentially take more classes in the summer quarter to make up units. (It takes a minimum of 180 units to graduate from Stanford).

Although if Rachael is seriously thinking of competing throughout her college years, I think it's very likely that she's looking at spending 6 years or more in college, especially if she's planning on doing graduate work in chemistry or biology as she's talked about. Paul Wylie may have graduated from Harvard, but it took him six years to do it. And between competitions and then touring with SOI, Debi Thomas was still taking classes at Stanford to finish her degree when I was an undergraduate in the early 1990s.

bigsisjiejie · Oct 10, 2011

Debi Thomas also took 6 years to graduate from Stanford, in the process changing her major at least once from the biologies to engineering--which is what her undergrad degree is in. She entered in fall 1985 as a premed and took a fairly normal classload, while training. She did incredibly well in the 85-86 season! IIRC, she then took a year off and maybe another year of light load during the runup years to the 1988 Olympics. I vaguely recall that in the year before she graduated (spring 1991) she had a bunch of accumulated incompletes in various classes that she had to finish up.

A difference though, is that at age 18 in 1985 entering college, Debi Thomas was a skater that still had not reached her highest potential in either skills or in international medal-winning prospects, and that was borne out in subsequent years. However, Rachael at age 19 in 2011 entering college, seems to have probably peaked and attained as much as she is ever going to, in skills and in international medals..and probably national titles as well. Though they are from different eras, skating/training regimes, and judging systems, IMO Debi was an all-around better skater then, than Rachael is now. Just my opinion--time will tell how it all plays out.

jenaj · Oct 10, 2011

Mathman said:
I believe Matt Savoie did his undergraduate degree and got a master's (at Illinois) while competing, but deferred starting Cornel Law School in 2005-06 in order to concentrate on making the Olympic team.

Matt went to Bradley, in Peoria, Illinois and got his Master's at U of Illinois.

ankka · Oct 10, 2011

Having had a competitive sports career on international level (ballroom dancing, not on the top level but quite high still) I'd say that the biggest struggle for me combining the sports with studies was with being ill. I mean, as long as I was healthy it wasn't really too much to take at all but when I caught a cold or something and should've let my body to rest, I simply didn't have time for it because of school work and it always took me longer to recover from it. Also, if one practices a lot one gets viral and bacterial infections more easily. So I often found myself having many weeks a semester on which I could only train half the amount I was supposed to due to having fever/stomach flu/influenza/whatever one may catch... That said, not all of us are equally prone to catch those so it may work just fine with Rachael.

Olympia · Oct 10, 2011

Ankka, I've heard you speak of your competitive career before, and I've always been impressed with the effort you had to put out for such an endeavor. I am not surprised to hear that illness would be a likely threat more frequently than with people who were not burning their candle at both ends, so to speak. I imagine that this is even truer of skating, which is after all in a cold, damp environment with a lot of sweating and then standing still.

I've read that although moderate physical exercise strengthens the immune system (for obvious reasons including the fact of increased circulation), strenuous exercise to the edge of endurance can actually depress the immune system, at least temporarily. Add an academic schedule to the practice regimen and there's no time to replenish the body's resources. So viruses and other ailments can last longer and just nag away at your energy and endurance--especially, if like most athletes, the person in question isn't eating a whole lot.

Another aspect of this enterprise for me to worrywart about! But at least Rachael is being sensible about not taking a full course load, so maybe she'll have the physical resources to fight these things off.

prettykeys · Oct 10, 2011

Nods to both of bigsisjiejie's posts. I think this is likely Rachael's last year for competitive skating before she fully focuses on her school.

Buttercup said:
Did Jeffrey ever graduate though? I thought he eventually decided he'd rather do other things.

I've never heard that he officially decided to do other things, but yes, I didn't hear that he graduated either, so it's safe to assume that perhaps he didn't.

Tonichelle · Oct 10, 2011

Vash01 said:
Debbie Thomas attended Stanford while she was competing and was at the top of her game (world champion '86). Paul Wylie attended Harvard while competing, and although he did not win a championship or even a world medal, he was #2 in the US mens field, which is nothing to sneer at. In 1988 he was second to only Brian Boitano.

I don't see why Rachael cannot handle both- Stanford and skating. She sounds like a very bright young lady who is very focused and has always excelled at what she did. If it turns out the academic load is too heavy, she can drop a class or two.

Yes, but Dr. Thomas even admits it was too much and it burned her out and her love of the sport died for a time...

Olympia · Oct 10, 2011

I was thinking of that too, Tonichelle. Thomas really burned herself out, and you could watch it happening before your very eyes. She was never able to give herself completely to either aspect of her frenetic life. I remember one competition where the announcer said that she had choreographed the routine on the plane on the way to the competition. That's no way to give anything to skating or to get anything out of it. I don't say that to criticize her--I loved her skating--but to sympathize with the straitjacket she found herself in. That being said, she did contribute ably to skating and also, obviously, to academics. I hope Rachael will too, and I'll support her as a fan.

pangtongfan · Oct 11, 2011

She can do what she wants but her career has already peaked. It will probably take an extremely bad season (even worse than this one) for reality to set in, so after coming 6th at Nationals this year we should see her come to her senses and go to school full time with some pro skating on the side.

jcoates · Oct 11, 2011

One point, I'd offer up about comparing Rachel's current endeavor to the past ones of other skaters it that she has many technological advances at her disposal to help her manage the work load that they did not have. I would kill to have had all the tools college kids have now when I was in school. It would have made life so much easier. Faster turnaround time for papers, better access to research materials, more access to the professor, greater networking opportunities with other students, etc. I think those options will make her journey more manageable. Not easy, but manageable.

Stanford or skating? Rachael Flatt chooses both

Buttercup

heyang

Vash01

Mathman

brightphoton

iluvtodd

Layfan

sidwich

bigsisjiejie

jenaj

ankka

Olympia

prettykeys

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Olympia

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

jcoates

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