Grand Prix: Chan's big challenges

wallylutz said:

I am not sure however that Chan's character would fit well with the way China trains its athletes. For one thing, he is prone to speak his mind, which may make him come across as disobedient and rebellious in the eyes of many. Also, the reason why Chinese skating hasn't produced any other significant star since Lu Chen is their overemphasis on jumps but not the areas that Patrick Chan excels. In that sense, I think Patrick Chan is who he is today because he benefited from the best of both worlds. His personality and character is unquestionably Canadian and he is proud of the fact that he speaks good French which few people outside of Quebec can. Beyond his physical appearance, there is nothing Chinese about him saving the frugality he displayed re: the bus episode at the LA Worlds.

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What do you mean about "nothing Chinese beyond his physical appearence"?!

I think Patrick is very Chinese-like in so many ways. He has firmly kept basic Chinese values, however, spoiled by western countries' freedom of speech. He's character and personalily are not unique at all among Chinese even in mainland of China. But I agree that he'd get more trouble in China than in western world. Most people, but not all, in China have learned to check their words in public but not in private situations.

The way Chinese skaters develop their skills are different from skaters in western world. Understandably, Chinese government has to choose technically strong skaters as their country's hopefuls before investing big state money on them. Then educate them on artistic abilities later. So they'd have better chance to get international results. If Patrick were in China during his grow up, I'd imagine he could succeed as well given he is not lack of the ability in jumps. The order of learning process would be different but he'd be successful. China might only have Lu Chen as a top artistic single skater. It is not lack of artistic skaters in pairs. Shen&Zhao were robotic technical skaters when they first appeared on the international stage. Years collaborating with top foriegn choreographers and coachs, they've become astonishingly beautiful first class artistic skaters.

ImaginaryPogue said:

If this is not an illogical leap into justifying one's own point of view, I don't know what is.

ETA; Article with some response from Skate Canada

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Why illogical? I watched his prior interview with a TV station in HK. He is said to spend around $200,000 per annum for training. The few corporate sponsors he had during Olys all terminated their contracts. If the most recognized skater in Canada can't even find enough money for basic training, let alone making profit, how the hell can this sport under CoP survive in the long run?

Chan's frustration is understandable. If you can't make ends meet, well, you just can't continue.

skateflower said:

Why illogical? I watched his prior interview with a TV station in HK. He is said to spend around $200,000 per annum for training. The few corporate sponsors he had during Olys all terminated their contracts. If the most recognized skater in Canada can't even find enough money for basic training, let alone making profit, how the hell can this sport under CoP survive in the long run?

Chan's frustration is understandable. If you can't make ends meet, well, you just can't continue.

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1. I'm not convinced that Chan's the most recognized skater in Canada, but as a V/M uber, I would say that.

2. My argument is that you made the leap from "Chan has troubles with training funding" to "COP is killing the sport" with barely a glance over to tackle some of the other factors that might have been at play. The idea that COP is mainly to blame for Chan's funding issues, as opposed to say a recession (smaller in Canada, admittedly) making every company hesitant about where they throw the big bucks - is naive to say the least, for example.

ImaginaryPogue said:

1. The idea that COP is mainly to blame for Chan's funding issues, as opposed to say a recession (smaller in Canada, admittedly) making every company hesitant about where they throw the big bucks - is naive to say the least, for example.

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We're talking about the world champion for a supposedly 'popular' sport is unable to secure enough funding for his training. Recession or not, this just means the 'sport' is really not that 'popular' as some of the diehard CoP supporters claim.

skateflower said:

We're talking about the world champion for a supposedly 'popular' sport is unable to secure enough funding for his training. Recession or not, this just means the 'sport' is really not that 'popular' as some of the diehard CoP supporters claim.

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..... okay.

ETA: I should state that I do like COP, but I recognize that it hinders the sport's popularity. I just don't think that it's the sole or even the biggest reason for the sport's decline.

wallylutz said:

I am not sure however that Chan's character would fit well with the way China trains its athletes. For one thing, he is prone to speak his mind, which may make him come across as disobedient and rebellious in the eyes of many. Also, the reason why Chinese skating hasn't produced any other significant star since Lu Chen is their overemphasis on jumps but not the areas that Patrick Chan excels. In that sense, I think Patrick Chan is who he is today because he benefited from the best of both worlds. His personality and character is unquestionably Canadian and he is proud of the fact that he speaks good French which few people outside of Quebec can. Beyond his physical appearance, there is nothing Chinese about him saving the frugality he displayed re: the bus episode at the LA Worlds.

One way or the other, it's unfortunate figure skating isn't what it used to be in North America. However, I think the Browning vs. Stojoko era was quite unique in that it is rare to see two close rivals coming from the same country. Rivalry draws people, whether it's Kerrigan vs. Harding or Ito vs. Yamaguchi or for that matter, Kwan vs. Lipinski. If Chan has a close rival at home who is also world podium contender, I think it's possible there would be greater interest on the sport. The Men's event is still the most watched category in Canada, that tradition has not changed but it can't be a one man show.

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My impression of Patrick as a student, from various sources, is that he really listened to his coaches and did as he was told. It has only been a couple years when his new coach encouraged him and he started himself, especially after the Olympics, to be an independant thinker and take charge of his training as an adult. He is a straight talker, but very respectful of the elders, as per Chinese tradition. Superficial observation aside, he is probably more Chinese than he seems and he is likely realizing it and wishing to be even more so. It is a common phase for immigrant children at his age, when they realize that no matter what, they are not exactly like the majority race they had wished so much to assimilate into and indentify with, and that the mainstream has lost its luster as they themselves mature. After years of fighting their parents, these young adults often turn around to appreciate their ancestral culture and become proud of their heritage. Eventually they are likely to benefit from being bicultural in their character development, community associations, and career opportunities.

Of course Patrick is who he is because of everything that have been in his life. It is probably and understandbly a little remorseful for a skater of today in N America to reach the top and find little psychological or financial rewards for a life of hard work and sacrifices. Patrick is finding himself much more popular in Korea and getting more recognition in China now that he has been there. Unlike most Canadian skaters, he is bicultural with twin identities, something not discouraged in Canada, and thus has more options.

I think it's a phase and he will come to appreciate his blessings. Maybe he already does too much and feels indebted. The reason for all his falls last season when he debuted his quad was the fear of disappointing those who had supported him so much. It is a mental burden few would understand and it was Boitano who did and was able to help him.

I have wondered myself what really motivate skaters and athletes in less popular sports to put themselves through what few can imagine. What is at the end of the rainbow? And an actual elite level competitive career is so short after a life dedicated to trainging. How do they handle the rest of their lives? These are very special human beings indeed.

eta. I do not have complete faith in the truthfulness of the Reuter report. The media have mispresented so many facts and views that a grain of salt is always advicable. This report is controversal enough that I expect some clarification from Patrick himself soon. Seems like they did the interviewa while ago and saved it for the opportune time for optimal effect. What effect are they after is what I wonder.

SkateFiguring said:

I do not have complete faith in the truthfulness of the Reuter report. The media have mispresented so many facts and views that a grain of salt is always advicable. This report is controversal enough that I expect some clarification from Patrick himself soon. Seems like they did the interviewa while ago and saved it for the opportune time for optimal effect. What effect are they after is what I wonder.

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I agree. I've posted my doubt in the other thread regarding to the same interview before I read your post.