Grand Prix: Chan's big challenges

gsk8 · Oct 13, 2011

There is just over a week before the figure skating season starts with the first of six ISU Grand Prix events taking place in Ontario, Calif. From a Canadian perspective there will be four men participating at different times in four of the six competitions, including 2011 world champion Patrick Chan.

More

gmyers · Oct 13, 2011

It seemed that the competition was being defined less by the ability to do a quad jump and more about having it as an ordinary element, in addition to superior skating skills and an outstanding ability to perform under pressure when it counts.

From 2008 worlds to 2010 worlds quads were completely vanishing from mens skating? And they were completely irrelevent at the 2010 Olympics. Nothing was rewarded less or punished more if you failed than a quad. Why is still necessary to insult Joubert and Plushenko? That's right they have no talent but quad ability. And people who didn't do quads had all the talent. Chan's has talent and quad ability and everyone is trying to be like Chan.

fscric · Oct 13, 2011

I honestly don't get the insults you're talking about from this article.

Bluebonnet · Oct 13, 2011

Thanks, gsk8!

"Winning the world championships was one thing, trying to win it again is something completely different," he (Chan) said. "I want to beat last year's world champion."

What a brilliant way of setting a mind! Hope Chan could win the World again! I love his this year's LP!

gmyers · Oct 13, 2011

How many skaters were even doing quads successfully from 2008 worlds to 2010 worlds and had success at worlds or Olympics? Really only Joubert and Plushenko. In recent years it was not doing a quad that made world and Olympic champions. I guess Chan is doing quads as an "ordinary element" but how much of that is because the rules changed? And he has a PCS advantage that continues from two senior seasons of never doing one quad in an ISU competition?

Violet Bliss · Oct 13, 2011

^^^ Are you complaining about Chan doing or not doing quads? Is there something in between doing and not doing quads that would possibly make you less bitter?

ImaginaryPogue · Oct 13, 2011

... so many misconceptions, so little time.

Bluebonnet · Oct 13, 2011

It seemed that the competition was being defined less by the ability to do a quad jump and more about having it as an ordinary element, in addition to superior skating skills and an outstanding ability to perform under pressure when it counts.

I do not particularly agree with this statement. I don't think quad is an ordinary element, never was and never will be. But I, too, don't see the connection between the part of the article in the above and your post below

:

gmyers said:
From 2008 worlds to 2010 worlds quads were completely vanishing from mens skating? And they were completely irrelevent at the 2010 Olympics. Nothing was rewarded less or punished more if you failed than a quad. Why is still necessary to insult Joubert and Plushenko? That's right they have no talent but quad ability. And people who didn't do quads had all the talent. Chan's has talent and quad ability and everyone is trying to be like Chan.

I thought there were some major controversy in the article and rushed to read it. But didn't find it. :biggrin:

"I think in my day of men's skating, it seemed a lot about jumps, a lot about the number of jumps and number of rotations in the jumps and you had to skate clean," said Canada's Brian Orser

That's one of the differences between 6.0 and CoP. Now a days, you don't have to skate clean to win. But it still counts the number of jumps and number of rotations in the jumps.

Buttercup · Oct 14, 2011

gmyers said:
From 2008 worlds to 2010 worlds quads were completely vanishing from mens skating? And they were completely irrelevent at the 2010 Olympics. Nothing was rewarded less or punished more if you failed than a quad. Why is still necessary to insult Joubert and Plushenko? That's right they have no talent but quad ability. And people who didn't do quads had all the talent. Chan's has talent and quad ability and everyone is trying to be like Chan.

There were other skaters doing quads, at least in the LP (e.g. Abbott, Lambiel, Verner, KvdP; Dai and Kozuka were at least trying them) but it's true that Buttle's win was something of a blueprint for how to win without a quad, except Evan Lysacek is no Jeffrey Buttle (though his PCS certainly began to suggest otherwise as the Olympics grew nearer).

I found it interesting that Brian Orser referenced the importance of skating clean back in the day without mentioning how outcomes could be decided by figures - something difficult and time-consuming that today's skaters don't need to worry about at all. Also, I would suggest that Joubert and Takahashi's difficulties stem from having suffered some serious injuries (Dai especially), being older and less resilient physically, and having competed senior for about a decade - all things that take a toll on one's body. If today's young skaters stick around as long as those two have, I imagine they too will see younger competitors catch up to them and perhaps surpass them. That's sport.

Now let's quote PJ:

In the case of Joubert, who competed at France's showcase competition for its elite skaters, he was beaten by Florent Amodio, leaving him wondering - as was reported - if he should stay with this season's free program or go back to an earlier and more successful one.

I'm not sure PJ understands what purpose the Masters serves - or realizes that Joubert often skates poorly at that event. Also, he had already gone to an older program, so I'm not sure what she's trying to get at.

Takahiko Kozuka of Japan is the 2011 world silver medallist and can match Chan step for step in musicality, expression and skating skills.

Look, I know the judges love them some Patrick Chan, but come on, it's not that hard to match him on musicality and expression; it's just hard to get the IN and P&E scores to reflect it.

The climb to the Olympics starts now.

You mean last season was just for fun?

seniorita · Oct 14, 2011

^I think the previous to the Olympic season is most important to make an impression for Olys, ex. Yuna was not 2008 WC and was not concidered so hard to reach by Mao etc but since she and Evan won 2009 worlds they were pretty much concidered unbeatable.

ImaginaryPogue · Oct 14, 2011

Oh, PJ. She makes my head hurt. The combination of bias and passive-aggressive misinformation really does annoy me. I actually didn't read the post until gmyers complained about it.

let`s talk · Oct 14, 2011

Bluebonnet said:
That's one of the differences between 6.0 and CoP. Now a days, you don't have to skate clean to win.

Yeah. Great conclusion.

Bluebonnet · Oct 14, 2011

Buttercup said:
Look, I know the judges love them some Patrick Chan, but come on, it's not that hard to match him on musicality and expression; it's just hard to get the IN and P&E scores to reflect it.

Agree that Kozuka and Chan are matchable on those accounts. But I think with the music choice Kozuka got last year, his IN was correct. And P&E was about in the right place too. A large part is because of the choreography and music choices, I think Kozuka will continue to be hammered down in IN, CH, as well as P&E in this year's LP. Though there is a seperate CH to reflect it, IN is affected greatly by CH. And I don't think it's because the scores judges give to him doesn't reflect it. I think Kozuka got what he deserved.

Unlike POTO with busy CH, I think Chan's this year's CH is superior, match and carry the music beautifully with his greatly improved upper body movements. Shall we see 10s in his this year's CH? :biggrin:

seniorita · Oct 14, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
Oh, PJ. She makes my head hurt. The combination of bias and passive-aggressive misinformation really does annoy me. I actually didn't read the post until gmyers complained about it.

This. I dont like her commentary and I always found her public questions on another forum kind of having no point.

pangtongfan · Oct 15, 2011

Laughable title. Chan has absolutely no challengers now. Mens skating is a silver and bronze battle until he retires. He is by far the best skater, and he is also by far the judges favorite and pet. Combine the two and it will take 7 falls for him to lose any event from until Sochi.

let`s talk · Oct 15, 2011

pangtongfan said:
Laughable title. Chan has absolutely no challengers now. Mens skating is a silver and bronze battle until he retires. He is by far the best skater, and he is also by far the judges favorite and pet. Combine the two and it will take 7 falls for him to lose any event from until Sochi.

Now I understood that you had been sarcastic. I already started to worry.

Violet Bliss · Oct 17, 2011

Radio-Canada (French CBC) write-up on Chan

I'll translate Chan's quotes:

On Japan Open, where he won first place in spite of three falls:

"It was a good occasion for working my programs. I had not had much training before going to Japan. My goal was just to exercise myself* and to enjoy the pleasure of skating. Technically it was not perfect, but it was still good."

*"m'exercer" (exercise/exert myself) may be better translated here as "do my thing" or "do my best", I think. Then the "it" later would refer to this exercise/thing he did.

On his training and goals:

"I don't like to see myself as a big favorite. I have become an egoistic skater. I focus only on me and my effort to improve. Since I won the World Championship, people ask me what is my motivation? I answer that I am in a competition against myself."

"I have changed since last year. I try to better myself form year to year to arrive at the next Olympic Games."

Dragonlady · Oct 17, 2011

gmyers said:
I guess Chan is doing quads as an "ordinary element" but how much of that is because the rules changed? And he has a PCS advantage that continues from two senior seasons of never doing one quad in an ISU competition?

None of it is because of rule changes. Patrick always had a plan which had him adding the quad to his LP in the Olympic year. First the 3A in his first senior season, then in his 2nd senior season making the 3A consistent, and for the Olympic season adding the quad. He landed the quad at Liberty the summer before the Olympics but tore up his calf muscle which caused him to skate badly at Skate Canada, and to pull out of his second GP event that season. If not for the calf muscle tear, Chan would have been doing a quad at the Olympics. Since that wasn't possible for him, he added it this year.

Chan's "PCS advantage" has to do with his speed, power and command of the ice, something he's had since 2008. I noticed immediately at Skate Canada that year that Chan's skating had moved into a whole other level from the rest of the field. I hadn't seen anyone skate with that much command of the ice since Plushenko and Yagudin at their peaks.

Violet Bliss · Oct 17, 2011

BTW, Pchiddy has twitted:

Vote for my dawg buddy, dawg. Thanks! www.fidocastingcall.ca/dogs/4107

Since one dollar per click up to $200k is donated to Lions Foundation of Canada Dog Guides, it would be fun and a good cause even if you wish to pick your own next doggie star.

Bluebonnet · Oct 19, 2011

SkateFiguring said:
"I don't like to see myself as a big favorite. I have become an egoistic skater. I focus only on me and my effort to improve. Since I won the World Championship, people ask me what is my motivation? I answer that I am in a competition against myself."

"I have changed since last year. I try to better myself form year to year to arrive at the next Olympic Games."

Good for him that he could set his mind like this!

Grand Prix: Chan's big challenges

gsk8

gmyers

fscric

Bluebonnet

gmyers

Violet Bliss

ImaginaryPogue

Bluebonnet

Buttercup

seniorita

ImaginaryPogue

let`s talk

Match Penalty

Bluebonnet

seniorita

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

let`s talk

Match Penalty

Violet Bliss

Dragonlady

Violet Bliss

Bluebonnet

Similar threads

Connect with us