I haven't seen any 3-quad LP that I would care to see again. AFAIK Joubert, Goebel and Honda are the only skaters to do a 3-quad program. It seems to take so much out of the skaters to execute those three quads, there is nothing left for anything else. Particularly disappointing was Honda's program because he started out as a really complete skater with such artistic flair and by the time he did the 3-quad program, he was all jumps and not much else.Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
Chan's biggest impart on the sport is the demonstration that one can do quads in a program with intricate footwork and cheorography, which has become the new standard in Men's skating. As for adding another quad, he has stressed that he would not do it by sacrificing the choreography.
Chan is blazing a path in setting standards as he keeps on challenging himself. I noticed his set ups for the quads in his new LP are even shorter than last year. Entries into all other jumps are ever more difficult, with choreographed moves shortly before them. IOW, there is hardly any preparation/set-ups for any of his jumps now. I believe he will become comfortable in performing the new program but then he will again up the ante by adding another quad.
If Chan manages to do a 3-quad LP, I believe it wouldn't be anything like anybody else's multi quad program before.
Last edited by SkateFiguring; 10-21-2011 at 03:15 PM. Reason: misspelling
I agree that a 3 quad program by Chan would not be like a 3 quad by Goebel or Joubert or Honda. He would do more and not have a long set up. But of course there would be a set up. Chan does set up jumps. And he can't get a 3A consistent and falls so many times because he does care too much about transitions and choreo and needs to stop doing so much and calm down and it have more clean skates.
I'm with SkateFiguring on this one. I think anybody would agree that Chan's artistry is better than Joubert's. Also way above Goebel's which was dull and had nothing without quad. Honda was good. I don't remember much and actually didn't watch his skating other than 2002 Olympics. At that time, it was not unsual to have a long preparation time before a big jump. I'm sure Chan has a lot more time to squeeze in choreographs given he saved preparation time.
I don't. And I'm not saying it because I'm a Joubert fan; there are skaters who are stronger artistically than Brian, though I do feel he's underrated in this regard because of his style of skating. But Chan is more of a technician than an artist, and his strength on PCS derives from that. Oh, he gets the artsy marks, too, but that's because the skating skills and TR pushes all the components up, not because he's on par with Stephane Lambiel skating Poeta.
Putting in a bunch of transitions does not an artist make. Putting in transitions that work with the concept of the program and using them to express the music is another matter. But Chan's not really doing that.
And he does set up his quad - or at least, he has in every program I've seen from him. Plus, last I checked, Chan's still not among the skaters who've landed a 4S in competition.
It's not just a time issue. Quads take a lot of energy, both physical and mental, which is why so many falter in other jumps after a successful quad at the beginning of the program. Chan has demonstrated great energy in his performance of a demanding LP, thanks to high altitude training for which he is postponing his university education because of high tuition costs in the US.
I am glad that I am not the only who saw artistic flair in Honda's performance. I still remember his Sing, Sing, Sing short program: the mischievous smirk he put on his face, the bright and sunny energy that oozed out of his skating.....
This is what I meant when I said "not much left". It's not a time issue at all but one of energy and focus.
Well, I don't necessarily agree---it depends on how you define "artistry". I would say Chan has better choreography than Joubert. Chan's supreme skating ability permits artistic/creative freedom for his choreographer. Joubert's limits it.
If we define "artistry" as "added value to the choreography through performance", I will say Joubert is not worse than Chan.
Last edited by skatinginbc; 10-21-2011 at 06:29 PM.
I never understood how artistry is measured, in kilos, meters or whatever but Joubert has the ability to drag the audience and get it involved while he skates and for me thats equaly important. I ve seen programs of elite skaters that bored me to hell. Also one exhibition I had seen of him in 2010 really surprised me. I use show examples cause they are irrelevant of transitions and quads. I havent yet seen a gala program of Chan to do that with the audience but thats me and not general, nevertheless it is unfair to even compare these two skaters, they are different and their strengths are elsewhere, most important they come from a different generation and Chan is still too young while Joubert is an experienced showman. If Yagudin was competing with Chan nowdays he would be probably be beaten but that doesnt mean anything. Joubert is not Lambiel poeta, but Lambiel is not also Daisuke's techno swan and really if all skaters were like labiel or artistry was coming only of skaters using rachmaninof it would be boring.
Hallelujah. One of my favorite artistic programs skated by Brian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Kx1_xsyLk
IMHO, Patrick is not a natural dancer. However, he has the superb skating skills and natural talents needed by a skater (e.g jumping and balancing abilitiy, musicality). These qualities, combined with the good choreography by Lori Nichol, make him a champion.
He will never be able to dance as Johny Weir does, but it doesn't matter. After all, he is a skater, a much better skater than Johny is, a well deserved world Champion.
What's Chan's biggest challenge?
It depends on his ultimate goal. If he wants to be Michelle Kwan of male skating, an Olympic title or more Worlds titles will not bring him that prestige. If he wants to be a record breaker like Elvis Stojko and Evgeni Plushenko, he is already there. If he wants to succeed in show skating, I'm sorry, I don't see that happening unless he can show me a good Gala program. If he simply wants to be himself, "have fun, enjoy and make the fullest of yourself"--that's his challenge.
Patrick does want to improve his presentation skills but I don't think he wants to be in show business to make a living. I think his goal is to win several world titles and the Olympic champion, then retire and study international business.
If Chan wants to expand his horizons artistically, he has to try working with a new choreographer, or barring that, he needs to at least talk Lori into giving him interesting material like she does with Carolina Kostner (a Shostakovich trio!!! Oh Caro, I love you so).
I prefer the 2009 Worlds EX version - he'd polished it a bit by then, and it looked better. Also I never liked the white costume.
I also felt the performance took on added meaning at 2009 Worlds because Brian was portrayed in the (NA) media at the time as a jumper only, and this showed people a very different side of him. And having the 2A at the end, after what happened to him in the LP at that event, was a nice touch (though not unique to this performance). A good exhibition program does not need to be a competitive program only with lyrics; it's an opportunity for skaters to show things they might not be able to in competition, to skate to something they find personally meaningful, or just to entertain.
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