I don't think it made him look good.
Originally Posted by fscric
He hasn't explained the situation honestly. Loved to compete but couldn't come to a "suitable" agreement in time. Sorry. Too bad.
I think the only reason this came up is he found out just how much he was worth to the USFSA. They used him to promote an event, so obviously they think he's bankable. Sounds like he and/or his agent thought they could make a few extra bucks... but the USFSA said no. So Evan pulled out. I don't agree with ANY athlete in any sport withdrawing from an event over money. But football, baseball, all of the sports have it - just not normally the olympic sports.
So why does he say he wants to come back, and even come back for Sochi?
I don't think pulling out of an event over money means he doesn't want to go forward. I guess I'm confused to your question.
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
I mean if making money is so much a concern for a comeback, why compete? Competing is the worst way of making money. I suspect that Lysacek is not really into coming back. The main melody of comeback is around "money".
Originally Posted by Tonichelle
Well, that makes no hardship on me. Whether he is really coming back or not, I don't really root for him to come back.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-15-2011 at 12:22 AM.
Lysacek was pretty sassy about the USFSA in the previous Hersh article, laying the groundwork for not being responsible for eventual non participation. I have no idea about all the intricacies and negotiations or who said what, but it's ridiculous for this to happen so close to the event.
eta. I wonder if there could be an issue over compensating for his fewer appearances in the SOI shows?
Last edited by SkateFiguring; 10-14-2011 at 11:45 PM.
That's a thought.
Originally Posted by SkateFiguring
No matter what price Lysacek has asked, we can be sure that it was more than USFSA was willing to give.
I am flabbergasted.....I have only been followinging competition for 8 years or so and here I thought this was an amateur competition!
I had no trouble with the federations helping skaters with the enormous costs of competing by letting them do shows and giving
financial help. But skating for dollars? This isnt Fashion on Ice....I am not here to dump on Evan or anyone but if my federation had helped me
by using monies from the memorial fun et al and got me to a high place, and I had made a bunch of money at that high place, I personally would feel some sort of debt
to repay to my sport. When Sarah H. decided to not come to SkateAmerica 2002 Spokane, Michelle Kwan graciously elected to come and "fill the gap".
I'm not saying our skaters shouldnt be supported....I give bucks so they can...but it seems to me for very little effort, Evan could leave LA and get to Ontario and try
his programs in front of a crowd before nationals. Remember what happened to Yu-Na when she skipped the season and just skated at Worlds?
I am now wondering what else I dont know about this sport.....OK...rant over.....
As Toni said, this sort of thing happens all the time. I just think in this case, USFSA was trying to act as both big time professional sport (where money counts first) and a small time amateur sport (where personal relationships count first) and got caught.
In tennis, appearance fee issues come up routinely. I suspect, though we may never know for certain, that this may not just be about an appearance fee. As others have speculated and Hirsch's interview a few weeks ago hinted at, this may be more of a rights fee issue.
Evan's name and likeness are legally his own and he can charge for the right to use them, just as an author's books are copyrighted. Being and OGM, they have marketable monetary value. If he felt they were using his name and image to boost ticket sales and increase their profit margin, then he had every right to ask for a portion of the proceeds.
That is in fact the logic behind appearance fees. It ensures that the event holder does not underpay the athlete by restrictng him/her only to the prize money available. Prize money is often deliberately carved out as a specific dollar amount regardless of profit before the event is held. Of course, that protects the event against some loss if ticket sales are poor. But when ticket sales are boosted by the promotional image of a participant, the participant can rightfully argue that they should be given a share of the added profit rather than just any prize money earned. If Evan's agent was involved in this, I would not be surprised at all if that's what this came down to.
Last edited by jcoates; 10-15-2011 at 12:05 AM.
Evan has better train hard for his Nationals. There are only two spots for Worlds and we know judging can be funny at the US Nationals.
Where was the passion and pure love for the sport then?
I guess I've been unfair to Evan's legal right.
Adam Rippon twitted:
@DouglasRazzano YES YES YES!!! When I read this I yelled out a big "YES!!" So happy for you. You earned it!
5 hours ago
Douglas Razzano called this the best birthday present he'd ever been given!
Last edited by SkateFiguring; 10-15-2011 at 12:29 AM.
An athlete can be passionate about his/her sport and still fight to be recognized for his worth. After all this is the year of athlete pay/rights vs owners/leagues/federations' profit margins. We wouldn't begrudge a business exercising the right to charge a fair price for their product. Evan is his own product.
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
This sort of thing has been going on in sports that have traditionally operated under the rules of amateurism and shamateurism for decades. Given that skating is an individual sport without leagues, teams or owners, the best analogy to these arguements can be found in sports like tennis and golf where national federations fill that role.
In tennis, players in major events had to maintain official amateur status in order to be allowed entry prior to 1968. Once they started being paid, even for outside interests, they were barred. Still these were people with wives, husbands and families to support, so many of the very best left the majors behind for makeshift pro tours as soon as they made a name for themselves by winning a few big events. That led to a constant turnover in the amateur ranks with new champions every few years, but it was argued eventually that the very best players were pros. (Any of this sound familiar in skating?) Of course if you dug below the surface, the "amateur" events were paying larger and larger appearance fees under the table to hold on to as many players as possible. Everyone knew about it, but no one acknowledged it. Thus the term shamateurism. Finally, in 68 tennis became open to pros (thus the term "open era") and everyone was on the same competitive playing field again.
But the national federations still tried to operate for several years as if they were still in the amateur era. They dictated all the terms to the players about rules, appearances, conduct, pay, dress code, sponsorship, ticket prices, scheduling while also leveraging their relationships with them to promote events and make significant profits. They essentially treated them as employees. Eventually, things came to a head in 1973 when a Yugoslav player declined to play Davis Cup for his country. His federation suspended him and Wimbledon denied him entry into the tournment draw despite having an adequate ranking. The men's players association united around him and almost all the top players from non-communist countries elected to boycott the tournament. It was a huge international sports story and is still talked about today (especially in this climate). The tournament officials were caught off guard. They were certain they had all the power. They still held the event, but it's outcome has always been view with an asterisk because the very best did not play it. Following that fiasco, and players' rights issues gradually improved, still nearly forty years later, they are not on par with other big time sports. Most of the power still lies with with the federations, the grand slams and the regular tour events. Players are still paid a shockingly low percentage of profits have virtually no say in scheduling, pension, and health issues. For example, at this year's US Open, the players received 12% of the revenue as prize money and per diem fees. In the NFL, players players get 53% of the revenue as a result of their new deal.
Now I recognize all of the revenue challenges that USFSA and ISU face and that they are not the NFL or pro tennis, but the principle of fair compensation still exists regardless of status. These skaters are essentially being treated as employees and are forfeiting the right to control their image and the money that can be earned from it. If there were no direct prize money, as in the Olympics (where national federations and sponsors step in to fill the pay void), there would be no issue. But since prize money is involved, this is a pro sport. As such, the athlete has the right to negotiate in his own best interest at the very least. At best, they should have a seat at the table to help craft the rules of the sport, address the health issues involved and consider pension issues for those invovled in the sport long term.
My point is this is nothing new and is actually symptomatic of a larger issue in sports in general. All the major sports are addressing these concerns this year. Evan is not unique in this and should not be singled out for his choice.
ITA and what you wrote I won't take as rant but as reason.
Originally Posted by CoyoteChris
I took this as a demand from Evan to the USFSA some huge compensation for using his portrait rights.
But I've never heard of federations unable to use their amateur eligible skaters' photos to be shown on promotion means of the events they organize.
Evan's request loses its legitimacy with the fact that he let USFSA expect him to show up in GPs.
He may have had the right to get assigned and later pull out (which is not a very fair attitude IMO), but to demand something by threating with his option of pulling out is out of question.
I have nothing personal against Evan but if you keep tolerating such move as this, federation will lose its authority in the end.
I hope this is a misunderstanding of his statement but then again, Evan owes his fans a more earnest explanation.
ETA: Tennis and Golf are pro sports and not amateur sports such as figure skating.
Last edited by sorcerer; 10-15-2011 at 01:14 AM.