Only one US Judge at Worlds

jcoates · Oct 21, 2011

I don't know why I'm even posting this since the facts contained in it will be utterly disregarded. Nevertheless...

Torvill and Dean totally rearranged their 94 FD after a less than stellar reception at Euros that faced off with the massive scores G/P got in that segment. The music was the same, but the choreograaphy was totally rearranged and replaced in a matter of weeks. They still won bronze and should have arguably placed higher.

Though not an Olympic year, the Dushenays scrapped their "Mirrors" FD after a disastrous Euros, they made a new free dance based on their theme from the previous season. They won Worlds with stellar scores in the FD.

gmyers · Oct 21, 2011

I don't disregard your factual statements just disagree with some opinions. Like the idea that Shabalin was even capable of executing a newly learned routine well giving his knee situation. Obviously the routine was the way it was for many reasons.

chuckm · Oct 22, 2011

Shabalin wasn't capable of executing the routines they HAD at anywhere near the level of the top two AND Faiella/Scali. Yet they won an Olympic medal despite being slow and scratchy, with Domnina basically having to drag Shabalin around the ice. You'd think DomShabs would have been pleased to be on the Olympic podium under the circumstances, but they weren't. They grumbled that the medal should have been gold. Talk about poor sportsmanship!

gmyers · Oct 22, 2011

At one point Shabalin did drag Dominina along the ice in the free dance by use of a rope. LOL. They did not show up technically incompetant nor choreographically incompetant. They worked very hard on the ice. Both of them. They didn't skate around doing nothing and win bronze. I just don't feel that their was no corruption in gold or silver but in bronze. If there was corruption in bronze there was also corruption in gold and silver as well. And the technical controller not just the judges was also corrupt. This thread is about judges but doesn't mention technical controllers so much. Obviously their nationalities are also subject to speculation and corruption allegations now that that position exist.

ImaginaryPogue · Oct 22, 2011

I disagree with your premise that there can only be corruption in all medal positions or none. When the top two are in another class, they're in another class, as they were at the Olympics

prettykeys · Oct 22, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
I disagree with your premise that there can only be corruption in all medal positions or none. When the top two are in another class, they're in another class, as they were at the Olympics

Agree. I won't get into speculations on politics, but the argument "if the judging was corrupt, D/S might as well have won gold" does NOT hold. Such a blatantly corrupt judgment would have given us a fiasco like SLC #2. D/S's CD was the best, yes, but their OD should have been 5th, tops, if not lower.

dorispulaski · Oct 22, 2011

In my experience in dance, the most corruption is involved in the 4 through 12 region where placings determine how many teams the country gets at worlds (or euros), and whether their teams are "seeded" at the GP, or get minimum score to qualify for this or that. At the top, really only at most 3 countries are involved, the medallists. As you go down the ranks, suddenly opportunities open up for all the judges, if they are the type that would do that.

DianaSelene · Oct 22, 2011

chuckm said:
They grumbled that the medal should have been gold. Talk about poor sportsmanship!

No, they didn't.

KKonas · Oct 25, 2011

The biggest concern here is that there will be judges from countries with less experience in judging major events and are often influenced by those more experienced judges who may have an agenda.

backoutsideedge · Oct 25, 2011

KKonas said:
The biggest concern here is that there will be judges from countries with less experience in judging major events and are often influenced by those more experienced judges who may have an agenda.

So is this an issue for you because it's the USA who only has one judge? There have been other years when this was the case for other countries (ie. Canada at 2010 worlds) and didn't see any posts about that then.

KKonas · Oct 25, 2011

backoutsideedge said:
So is this an issue for you because it's the USA who only has one judge? There have been other years when this was the case for other countries (ie. Canada at 2010 worlds) and didn't see any posts about that then.

Are you always so contradictory? I only brought it up because my good friend was the international judge who was picked to go to Worlds and was disappointed that the trip was cancelled and also because it is true that there are countries with less experienced judges who can be influenced by the opinions of others.

drivingmissdaisy · Oct 26, 2011

KKonas said:
The biggest concern here is that there will be judges from countries with less experience in judging major events and are often influenced by those more experienced judges who may have an agenda.

But then they will gain more experience by judging a major event and will presumably be less influenced by experienced judges later.

All the judges have an agenda; the North American judges are just as crooked as anywhere else (remember the US judge sending out a critique of Plushenko before the 2010 Olympics, or judges suggesting to leave room above scores for early skaters in the Pairs SP at SLC which resulted in S&P winning a few ordinals above B&S despite a silly fall at the end). I think the Russians do benefit from having more Soviet judges, but all the other countries are aware of this and you'll see a lot of the Western countries voting in tandem as well. I agree with the person who said you see the effects of shady judging in the 4th-12th spots where skaters are being primed for future success and countries are trying to get a certain number of skaters qualified to events.

KKonas · Oct 26, 2011

You might want to read another opinion on this matter from Jimmie Santee's (skater and coach and brother of David Santee) blog. He states. "Regardless of the process, the outcome of the draw does influence the makeup of the panels. Just because everyone gets an even shot at a spot does not mean that we get the best panels. It's left to chance and although it protects the integrity of the leaderhip from media scrutiny, I don't think this helps the outcome. We all expect or leadership to stand tall and lead...not to hide behind a process that gives the same odds as you get in Vegas." http://skatepsa.blogspot.com/2011/10/is-it-fair.html?spref=fb

drivingmissdaisy · Oct 26, 2011

I completely disagree with Mr. Santee. He states:

"The countries with the best skaters could have better odds of having a judge drawn. It could be exactly the way they do it for the number of skaters each country gets to send! If we get 3 competitors at worlds, then we get to put up to three judges in the pool. It's not a guarantee but it would increase the odds."

What I don't agree with is the premise that there should be some advantage in the draw for countries with good skaters. If the purpose is to have impartial panels, I don't see how that is achieved with this solution; it only increases the likelihood of dominance by countries like Russia and Japan, who will have a better chance of getting judges on panels. I just don't like this premise that a judge from Turkey or Israel is less worthy to judge a major event than one from the USA; this scoring system is still relatively new so why not give other countries an equal shot of learning to judge so that they can take what they learned back to their federations and improve the sport in their home country?

Mathman · Oct 26, 2011

I agree with Drivingmissdaisy and disagree with Santee.

If anything, it should be the opposite. Countries that have top skaters in the competition should be forbidden from having judges on the panel.

Contrary to Sanntee's opinion, the last thing we want is for the big-wigs to "stand tall" and pack the judging panrels with their pre-selected favorites.

Only one US Judge at Worlds

jcoates

gmyers

chuckm

gmyers

ImaginaryPogue

prettykeys

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

DianaSelene

KKonas

backoutsideedge

KKonas

drivingmissdaisy

KKonas

drivingmissdaisy

Mathman

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