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Thread: Men's FS

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    I think the continual yap about "Chan's 3-4 falls still win" is kind of insulting to Chan's skating and his effort.
    I would take it as a compliment. As you said, he won with great skating skills and all other well executed elements. Unless you subconsciously think it was a shame or insult to skating that he won it that way, there is no reason for you to be afraid or automatically become defensive when people mention it. Let's face it: His three-fall win has set a high standard for all skaters who strive to be competitive, a standard that has been ingrained in everybody's mind. How can you stop people mentioning it? And why do you even attempt to do so? My logic is straightforward: If Kozuka couldn't win with two falls in this weak field, he should be worried and seeking areas for improvement in order to have any hope of challenging Chan, who could rightfully win a competition with three falls.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 10-23-2011 at 04:21 AM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    The program has nothing but jumps.
    You must have been watching a different program from the one I saw....

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    I think the continual yap about "Chan's 3-4 falls still win" is kind of insulting to Chan's skating and his effort. He did not win with just 3-4 falls. He won with great skating skill and all other well executed elements.


    The program has nothing but jumps.
    Even he has not much expression, Kozuka has great skating skills, speed and flow on ice.

    If you think his program has nothing but jump, I wonder has any skater who are completing now, beside Chan has more than just jump in the program in your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Now, here comes the part I need enlightenment from the experts: What should he do to improve his PCS so there will be a big enough cushion against his falls? He has a very difficult choreography, but it doesn't seem to bring him more points.

    .
    I wonder of the same thing.
    Last edited by treeloving; 10-23-2011 at 12:09 AM.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeloving View Post
    Even he has not much expression, Kozuka has great skating skills, speed and flow on ice.
    I noticed Kozuka's usual "flow" (his trademark smoothness and lightness) has suffered quite a bit (perhaps not highlighted) in this LP. I hope more mileage will help.

  5. #110
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That's one of the problems with the CoP. If you get ahead in the SP, you can coast in the finale and still win.
    If we had a separate SP without the music and concentrated on defined elements we would have a real Sport. But some people are looking for grand emotional ballet movements as they sit in their ez chairs and watch tv and refuse to see real ballet on stage. Very few teenagers can emote. They live a sheltered life.

    Once the SP for executing defined elements is scored, we can watch the Final Skate to music with ballet line to add the two for the winner. Simple and honest.

  6. #111
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post

    The program has nothing but jumps.
    kozu Lp ? I must have been watching a different one then, I thought the step sequence was mesmerizing..all the choreo actually.

  7. #112
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    A few thoughts - thrilled to hear/see Terry Gannon!

    Very happy for Kevin. I know he's not the most elegant skater out there, but he has persevered for so long. I'm glad he's on the podium.

    I really like Michal Brezina, and I'm glad he medaled. I wonder how his coaches are taking his comments. I hope he will go with the "go for it" attitude through the season.

    I Taka and felt bad for the mistakes in the program, but was still glad that he medaled.

    Loved Denis Ten's program. Felt bad for Armin (whom I adore). I like Ricky, and hope he will continue to improve.

    Wish we could have seen Douglas Razzano's program.

  8. #113
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    to tell the truth,I respect KVDP,but...every time I saw him,I hope others win >< I know it's not right,but I can't help myself,sorry Kevin...

    I'm glad Brezina won,and his coach's desision (don't add the quads) is right,he fell once and single two jumps at the end of the LP,he's still not fully recovered...

    I really don't like Kozuka's costumes,and although his programs and skating skills are all perfect,his performance is not very good,and in some parts his move not match the music very well IMO...

    actually,I love Denis Ten and Richard Dornbush's programs most...

  9. #114
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    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-23-2011 at 09:52 AM.

  10. #115
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    *SHAMELESS*

    Dude. The middle and end of Michal Brezina's LP might be messy choreography to weird music cuts, but the beginning (before it gets to the slow part) is brilliant. It could have been SUCH a cool and awesome program.

  11. #116
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    His coach should have let him just go for it.

  12. #117
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    I feel Kozuka's PCS, at least the less subjective Skating Skills, Transitions, and Choreography, deserved a bigger margin over the others, considering the extremely difficult and intricate steps he did throughout the program. However, comparing his getting 3rd place with 3 falls to Chan's 2010 SC win with 4 falls, the difference is mostly on jumps. Besides the pretty random footwork fall, all Chan's falls happened after full rotations. And he did land a quad beautifully. In SA, Kozuka received 4 URs and 1 edge call. He missed Gold by less than 4 points. Rotating one of his 4Ts alone would have given him an additional 3.1 points. Correcting one or two other jump errors would have gotten him to the top of the podium. Considering Amodio's ridiculous LP and Brezina's propensity to mess up the later half of his LP, this was not a challenging field for him.

    I believe Kozuka is taking risks because he is thinking of the whole season, hoping to have his ambitious programs perfected by Worlds. However, unlike Chan, who only had the mental issues of debuting his quads at the beginning of last season, Kozuka has not really had his 4T down pat, missing more than hitting so far, though his best hit was at Worlds 2011. I hope and believe the Worlds Silver has boosted his confidence and courage, enabling him to up his performance and quad consistency.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 10-23-2011 at 11:19 AM.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    I feel Kozuka's PCS, at least the less subjective Skating Skills, Transitions, and Choreography, deserved a bigger margin over the others, considering the extremely difficult and intricate steps he did throughout the program. However, comparing his getting 3rd place with 3 falls to Chan's 2010 SC win with 4 falls, the difference is mostly on jumps. Besides the pretty random footwork fall, all Chan's falls happened after full rotations. And he did land a quad beautifully. In SA, Kozuka received 4 URs and 1 edge call. He missed Gold by less than 4 points. Rotating one of his 4Ts alone would have given him an additional 3.1 points. Correcting one or two other jump errors would have gotten him to the top of the podium. Considering Amodio's ridiculous LP and Brezina's propensity to mess up the later half of his LP, this was not a challenging field for him.
    My concern is only in PCS. Patrick's PCS was 84.06 for his LP with three falls at Japan Open, while Kozuka received 74.86 with two falls at SA, almost a 10-point difference. How can he close the gap? To my understanding, a fall is a fall; under rotations or edge calls should have no bearing with PCS. I was hoping to get constructive suggestions for his PCS improvement, but based on your answer, I conclude that Kozuka's PCS has been under-marked. That's depressing to know.

    I'm not worried about Kozuka's TES. He scored 98.53 vs. Chan's 96.44 in the last Worlds' LP. He can possibly beat Chan in that regard. But if Kozuka cannot close the gap in PCS no matter what he tries, that's depressing.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    My concern is only in PCS. Patrick's PCS was 84.06 for his LP with three falls at Japan Open, while Kozuka received 74.86 with two falls at SA, almost a 10-point difference. How can he close the gap? To my understanding, a fall is a fall; under rotations or edge calls should have no bearing with PCS. I was hoping to get constructive suggestions for his PCS improvement, but based on your answer, I conclude that Kozuka's PCS has been under-marked. That's depressing to know.
    You can't compare one event's scores to another. And I did not say Kozuka's PCS was definitely underscored in SA, but was relatively underscored as I felt that he should have a bigger margin over the field. I actually think some others' PCS were overscored, especially relative to Kozuka, who was underperforming himself. For sure his PCS will rise over the season as he gets more comfortable with the new LP. If he is underscored in one event, it doesn't mean he will be in another, particularly one with Chan also competing as per your concern.

    I'm not worried about Kozuka's TES. He scored 98.53 vs. Chan's 96.44 in the last Worlds' LP. He can possibly beat Chan in that regard. But if Kozuka cannot close the gap in PCS no matter what he tries, that's depressing.
    It's still very difficult for Kozuka to beat Chan in TES simply because of the difference in technical contents reflected in their BVs. At Worlds, Kozuka had the skate of his life, including landing a gorgeous quad which he often UR and fell on as he did again at SA 2011. Chan didn't have his best skate (LP) at Worlds, partly because he was not well on the day. Taking into consideration early season rust, Chan still has much more reliable quads than Kozuka. As for PCS, they, along with Takahashi, are in a very elite league. The difference in quality at their level can be subtle but nonetheless are there, as discerned by experts and judges who are trained and present. It's not depressing to be among the very best in the world, and it is not a fact that "Kozuka cannot close the gap in PCS no matter what he tries." We also know PCSs do get affected by the performances of the day, possible closing an usual gap.

    Yes, data shows PCSs do get affected by TES. Many people complain about Chan's high PCS with falls, but the fact is his PCS is even higher without falls.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 10-23-2011 at 02:32 PM.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    You can't compare one event's scores to another. And I did not say Kozuka's PCS was underscored in SA, just that I felt that, relative to the field, he should have a bigger margin than was given.
    There is a logical incongruency in that argument: If other people were over-marked, it means he was underscored (when we interpret scoring in a relative sense). If you believe he deserved what he got (i.e., 74.86, in an absolute sense), then you presume scores can be compared across different competitions. In measurement theory, a score can be norm-referenced (in a relative sense) or criterion-referenced (in an absolute sense), but not both.

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