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Thread: How many winners did you agree with?

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    How many winners did you agree with?

    I figured it would be worthwhile to toss this question out there. Mathman posits that it's odd that those who like COP still don't like the winners (usually). So lets figure it out....

    a) Do you prefer COP to 6.0 (under any guise)

    b) Based on the two skates, how many winners do you agree with?

    c) Of those you disagree with, do you feel the result was fair anyway, just not your preference on the day?

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    And my answers....

    a) A thousand times yes. More interesting programs, more interesting skaters, more interesting overall. Like Picasso or Serault vs a Monet, in my mind.

    b) I agree with three of the four winners - Davis/White, Savchenko/Szolkowy, and Brezina.

    c) I think if these exact same skates were held off home ice, the results would've been reversed for gold and silver. Not sure about bronze. So I guess, if I was honest, I'd say not fair.

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    Custom Title CassAgain's Avatar
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    1. I vastly prefer the COP.

    2. I agree with all four winners although I would have been okay with it if the judges had gone with KVDP, the Zhangs and Kostner.

    3. I think that Koster might have won elsewhere, and the Zhangs might have won in China.

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    ^^^ The one result you disagree with is a virtual tie, not a great blatant injustice.

    eta. This is a response to Pogue but somewhat applicable to the intervening post anyway.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    ^^^ The one result you disagree with is a virtual tie, not a great blatant injustice.

    eta. This is a response to Pogue but somewhat applicable to the intervening post anyway.
    I think one could argue for the virtual tie if Kostner had won the tech mark/PCS mark like she should have. But the judges giving the nod to Alissa on PCS tonight was blatently wrong.

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    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Men: Agree, Brezina was the rightful winner! I could not have stomached Van Der Perren winning.
    Ladies: I preferred Kostner and would have given it to her if I were a judge, but I am fine with Czisny winning!
    Pairs: Yes, S/S were head and shoulders above everyone else!
    Dance: Yes, D/W were head and shoulders above everyone else!

    So, the only discipline I didn't agree with was the ladies. Still, I respect how hard Alissa has worked to get to the improved and more confident state that she is now at. She attempted more difficulty technically than Kostner, even though her performance of her program was not at Carolina's level. Alissa did not wilt or cave in when she had a few errors in the LP. Both of these ladies are world class and well-balanced skaters, so it wasn't a contest of the athlete vs. the artist or an elite skater vs. a less than elite skater. Both are pretty much at the same level, though I prefer Kostner. I can understand and live with the result! It helps that I'm a fan of both of these skaters!

    I sometimes had problems with 6.0 judging, just like I sometimes have problems with COP judging. Nothing new! I think politics still very much comes into play in judging. Too many times, TES and skate order factor too much into the PCS judging, which at times can be troubling and frustrating.

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    a) Do you prefer COP to 6.0 (under any guise)
    No.

    b) Based on the two skates, how many winners do you agree with?
    Three. I agreed with S/S, Brezina, and D/W.

    c) Of those you disagree with, do you feel the result was fair anyway, just not your preference on the day?
    I'm not a particular fan of either Carolina or Alissa, and I don't think the result was fair. It's quite obvious Alissa had a hometown boost...to be honest, I don't even think the result should've been as close as it turned out to be.

  8. #8
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    1. COP
    2&3. I have no problem with any of the winners, but wouldn't have been upset if the mens and ladies gold and silver were reversed either. It could've gone either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CassAgain View Post
    1. I vastly prefer the COP.

    2. I agree with all four winners although I would have been okay with it if the judges had gone with KVDP, the Zhangs and Kostner.

    3. I think that Koster might have won elsewhere, and the Zhangs might have won in China.
    I'm not sure if I vastly prefer COP...I know there are times I do, and other times I long for 6.0. I know that I still view CoP through 6.0 at times; leading to me misinterpreting many things. But, I never understood or liked dance until CoP and I really love it now....and I used to love pairs and feel blah about it now....I think the men's has been totally amazing most of the time, although at times, they have "messed up" (speaking to how hard CoP might be for them and thus, why i probably should question it), but what they have combined in so many men is amazing; and that someone likd KVDP dould do as well as he did yesterday or Plushenko at the 2010's makes me not worry too too too much about them and CoP.

    so, about #1, I don't know. But I totally agree with your 2 and 3.

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    The difference between the two systems is that now we can pin point and argue about what we disagre on and do it in a quantitative way.

  11. #11
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    The difference between the two systems is that now we can pin point and argue about what we disagre on and do it in a quantitative way.
    Ha, so true! Now we get to ***** WITH NUMBERS!

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I figured it would be worthwhile to toss this question out there. Mathman posits that it's odd that those who like COP still don't like the winners (usually). So lets figure it out....

    a) Do you prefer COP to 6.0 (under any guise)

    b) Based on the two skates, how many winners do you agree with?

    c) Of those you disagree with, do you feel the result was fair anyway, just not your preference on the day?


    A. COP by far. As SkateFiguring notes, it's easier to analyze the results. Also you have a better idea of how to win.

    B. I am okay with all four.

    C. I would have been fine if Carolina won; I think she did a great FS. That said, I guess I don't feel as others do that this was a highway robbery. Alissa having high PCS scores is not a new concept. But THAT said, I could see the argument that Carolina should have received higher PCS.
    I don't think I would have changed the other winners.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Ha, so true! Now we get to ***** WITH NUMBERS!
    Exactly. Empowered by numbers, now we can sound smart and logical instead of emotional and irrational just insisting on our own infallible judgments. We now have arsenals to back up our infallible judgments.

    Numbers => IQ. COP
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 10-23-2011 at 08:02 PM. Reason: It's not very empowering to spell "empowered" wrong.

  14. #14
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    (a) About the same.

    (b) I agree with Davis and White. I wasn't thrilled by any of the pairs. Someone had to win, so I am OK with S&S

    I wanted VanderPerren to win the men's and I thought Kostner should have won ladies. I like it better when the winner hits a home run in the ninth, rather than sneaking in the back door.

    (c) I did not think anyone was scored unfairly. It's is a judged sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Empowered by numbers, now we can sound smart and logical instead of emotional and irrational just insisting on our own infallible judgments.
    I think that is the crux of the matter. Figure skating is an emotional and irrational sport. Attaching numbers to it makes it less enchanting, IMHO.

  15. #15
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    a) I vastly prefer the overall structure and premise of the CoP, though I still think many aspects could be improved to make things fairer and more transparent.

    b) I disagree with Alissa's win.

    c) I prefer Aliisa's skating, and I liked this particular performance more than I liked Kostner's. But as per CoP rules, Kostner should've won. So the result was my preference, but I find it unfair.

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