Men's Short Program
- Thread starter Spun Silver
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
What's wrong with that statement? Everyone knows that world champions are given some leeway from the judges, and it's nice to see a skater acknowledge that his marks can reflect that to some extent. He's not putting anyone down, he's not being smug about it - he's saying, this is what I get to work with, but I can't rely just on the judges' perception of me as world champion. Much better than Frank Carroll opining that skaters other than his were enjoying such a bonus.
I've no problem calling Chan out when he makes
statements, but this one - at least, as I read it - doesn't deserve criticism by any means.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Ice Network puts the words "judges" in [] as their assumption. From all other reports and all Chan's interviews, what's in [] refers to himself. But I guess that won't stop people from insisting on inflaming from a wrong assumption rather than finding out the truth.
Alissa is a gorgeous skater for sure. One of the most beautiful I've ever seen. But a lot of the things she's great at like spins/flexibility lines that trend was really started by Cohen.... I think too Asada has a very similar flowing/balletic style as Alissa but has also had far more success.
For me right now artistically Asada is a cut above the rest. I don't always love her programs but I love that she tries different styles like Bells (something I don't know if Alissa will ever try). Asada is someone who can literally bring me to tears. Her Jupiter exhibition program, well I always was Kim/Asada have different strengths. But with that program Asada was just so expressive and took things to such an emotional level that I'm at the point where I'd put her above Kim artistically too. My hope is that Mao can get her jumps back and perhaps continue to go the route of what her new short will be with highs and lows.
Chan's world champion statement is hardly his most offensive statement. But I really think Chan doesn't do himself any favors when he makes comments about getting the benefit of the doubt. Eventually I think the judges will find a new flavor of the month and will get tired of Patrick's inconsistency. In fact I'd love it if another skater responded with the comment that Patrick's gotten the benefit of the doubt his entire career.
Last edited:
Buttercup, the statement is light compared to a lot of other stuff Chan has said in interviews, sure. It's just that you get tagged with criticism moreso when you have a history of mouthing off. Unfair? Uh well, lots of things are unfair. Our criticism does not hurt Chan in the least. He's got loads of fans, judges, and the entire Canadian nation behind him (not forgetting about his huge talent). He's just not so superior over his competitors in every single area that he deserves over-the-top PCS scores no matter how he performs. That's my biggest gripe.
OT-- bekalc, to each his own re the ladies. Sasha brought what she brought, and a lot of ladies have been inspired by her. I think Alissa is an inspiration in her own right (extending nothing from Sasha). Alissa is bringing her own huge talent to the table. Her spins are God-given (and perfected, as Alissa has said, through lots of fun days spent practicing with and trying to best her sister in the spinning department).
OT-- bekalc, to each his own re the ladies. Sasha brought what she brought, and a lot of ladies have been inspired by her. I think Alissa is an inspiration in her own right (extending nothing from Sasha). Alissa is bringing her own huge talent to the table. Her spins are God-given (and perfected, as Alissa has said, through lots of fun days spent practicing with and trying to best her sister in the spinning department).
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Yes, it is unfair because most likely Chan did not make that statement. Any criticism, no matter how light it is in your mind, based on that unconfirmed assumption is unfair. I wouldn't mind your gripe and probably will support you as well if Chan actually said so, but honestly I don't think he did.
Please read my post in context, skatinginbc (just as you are so concerned about Patrick's words being taken out of context). I was responding to Buttercup's contention that there was nothing wrong with Chan's recent statement. My word, "light" refers to what Chan was quoted as saying, and not to our criticism of what he reportedly said. My biggest "gripe" has nothing to do with what Chan has been quoted as saying after the sp.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Point taken. Sorry for taking your words out of context.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
LOL Patroll Chan strikes again. Truly, the heel of figure skating.
Finally saw the top 3 skates. Am I the only one who doesn't have much a problem with the scores and ranking? Probably.
Javier landed the most difficult jumps decently enough. But his basic skating is pretty far below Takahashi and Chan. I'm not that fond of his posture either.
Takahashi is a delight as always. His jumps, though, especially that 3f/3t, looks a bit wonky to me. He might have been lucky not to have that 3t get an UR call.
Chan skated with his usual viciously deep edges. Amazing stuff. But it doesn't seem like he'll ever get that 3axel going consistently.
It was interesting to note that the judges seem to actually ding skaters for sub-par spinning this time. In the protocols, Javier got a -.13 for his level 2 flying upright spin after his 3axel, which traveled a bit but I didn't think was that bad. Takahashi's camel spin, which might have been short of rotation, because it looked really slow and a bit out of control, got a miniscule -0.04 deduction on top of only getting a level 1. Not exactly harsh, but nice to see some of them do pay attention.
Finally saw the top 3 skates. Am I the only one who doesn't have much a problem with the scores and ranking? Probably.
Javier landed the most difficult jumps decently enough. But his basic skating is pretty far below Takahashi and Chan. I'm not that fond of his posture either.
Takahashi is a delight as always. His jumps, though, especially that 3f/3t, looks a bit wonky to me. He might have been lucky not to have that 3t get an UR call.
Chan skated with his usual viciously deep edges. Amazing stuff. But it doesn't seem like he'll ever get that 3axel going consistently.
It was interesting to note that the judges seem to actually ding skaters for sub-par spinning this time. In the protocols, Javier got a -.13 for his level 2 flying upright spin after his 3axel, which traveled a bit but I didn't think was that bad. Takahashi's camel spin, which might have been short of rotation, because it looked really slow and a bit out of control, got a miniscule -0.04 deduction on top of only getting a level 1. Not exactly harsh, but nice to see some of them do pay attention.
Sure, skatinginbc. Having my words taken out of context has happened to me before, as it has happened to many people, including figure skaters. In this instance, the various reported versions of what Chan said don't seem to differ dramatically. And he has said more eyebrow-raising stuff. Lots of unfair stuff happens in life and in figure skating. What makes the difference, is how we each deal with that unfairness. Aside from our differences re Chan, skatinginbc, we at least seem to have a love of figure skating in common.
ETA: Actually, Serious Business, you are not the only one who doesn't have "much of a problem" with the scoring for men's sp, as witness the various posts in this thread in agreement with yours (I know, a somewhat time-consuming read).
ETA: Actually, Serious Business, you are not the only one who doesn't have "much of a problem" with the scoring for men's sp, as witness the various posts in this thread in agreement with yours (I know, a somewhat time-consuming read).
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Another evidence of good judging. I cannot wait to see how the long programs will play out.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
just as fans are on both sides of the debate's opinions are biased before they even go into the event. why we have to result to name calling and petty bickering is beyond me.
I think we all need to remember that EVERYONE's opinions are valid and that we are to remain respectful to EVERYONE (skaters included) and that pulling down an otherwise good conversation with personal fights helps no one.
The heel of skating is a bit much. At the end of the day Patrick doesn't score himself the judges do. To be frank I'm at the point where I'm blaming the system. The system needs to make major errors a bigger deal, especially in the short program. It also needs to make difficulty in general a bigger deal.
Patrick is the poster child for this system's problems. IMO. And obviously the system's good points because he is a beautiful skater. I just hate that he's allowed to make so many major errors all the time.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
It's nice of you to see it that way, and I am glad that you can tolerate our differences in opinions and treasure what we have in common. And thank you for those words.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
I apologize! I did indeed not read through most of the thread, just the first few and last few pages. I blame Patrick and his incendiary ways.
Saw two more SPs, Adam and Ross.
Rippon's stroking doesn't seem to have improved much despite training with Yuka Sato. Very disappointing. Still lots of pumping and slowness. The approach on his 3axel was so tentative. Love his spin positions, though. Really super stuff for a male skater. Although his second sit spin position could have more sit. His interpretation and performance seems more mature and assured than ever. If only all of his skating could be on that level.
Ross still exudes class. If only the judges would treat him as such. Him getting lower SS and TR scores than many other skaters, including Adam, is a freaking joke.
Thanks for your contribution, Tonichelle. Who said that "everyone's" opinions are not valid? Personal fights? I enjoy good discussion re figure skating as much as anyone else. I will definitely respond when I have something to say. I think its up to everyone not to get on the defensive when someone has strong things to say about his/her favorite skater, or about figure skating in general. No one is going to agree all the time, and if someone voices a strong opinion, why take it personally? If you don't agree, state your own opinion. Sometimes that may change minds, more often not when it comes to figure skating. I haven't called any posters on this board a name other than their user name, so why do you preface your words with one of my posts?
ETA: (I realize you may not be singling me out for approbiation, Tonichelle, so I apologize in advance if you weren't).
ETA: (I realize you may not be singling me out for approbiation, Tonichelle, so I apologize in advance if you weren't).
Last edited:
Well, thanks folks for those other Chan interviews. The quote was phrased strange, so those other interviews make more sense.
That said, as someone that works in media for a living, it's definitely not correct to put words in people's mouths or misquote them. But Patrick has said such comments before, so I think that's what people are reacting to.
That said, as someone that works in media for a living, it's definitely not correct to put words in people's mouths or misquote them. But Patrick has said such comments before, so I think that's what people are reacting to.
Thank you, Serious Business, for your astute analysis. I love Adam, so sometimes it is hard for me to really see some of his weaknesses. Thanks for pointing out those areas where he needs improvement, in a very classy way. I love, love, love your call out to Ross. He just makes me want to pinch his rosy cheeks. It is absolutely dreadful the way he's been cut down at Worlds and here in the judges' marks (despite his 2-axel and lack of his usual 3/3 combo, he has beautiful ss), whereas he was received quite well during last year's GP events. I hope that Mark and Peter can keep Ross pumped up and help him restore his confidence and consistency. I enjoy watching Ross skate.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
I do not signal people out, however I do think the heatedness on both sides of the "great divide" needs to cool down. I don't have an opinion on the "facts" of the event because unlike most I have not seen the event as of yet.
Ah, Tonichelle, maybe you should be made Commissioner of this Board, if not the sport.
Happy viewing.Similar threads
