I only noticed the open spin difference...which I like very much. That spin looks difficult to do and very effective.
Men's Short Program
- Thread starter Spun Silver
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I only noticed the open spin difference...which I like very much. That spin looks difficult to do and very effective.
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- Nov 19, 2010
He changed at least the getting smacked part which most never understood last season. Better this time though it's not part of skating. There seemed to be some other little changes but not much.
He really kept himself together after that mishap before the quad. Good for him.
He really kept himself together after that mishap before the quad. Good for him.
I agree that Dai's program was the most mature and nuanced. I loved watching Javi and I was so happy for him too, but I'd have even had Dai in front of Javi truthfully, despite Dai not doing a quad. If not for the quad, I definitely don't see Javi in front of Dai. The fact that the Pchid is so close behind Dai is eye-rolling. It just becomes like a broken record everyone saying b/c Chan should always have high PCS, no matter what. I totally disagree. Dai definitely should have won on PCS this eve. I used to enjoy Chan when he first came on the scene, but his mouth and superior attitude and the hype surrounding him have been just way too much over the top. Sure Chan excels at blade work, but that doesn't make him better than everyone else. Let's not pretend that IJS isn't still a work-in-progress, and that politics don't always play a role. I would have had: Dai, Javi, Adam, and Chan, based on what they did here. I know that Chan has the higher rep and bragging rights and is considered to have great basics, but to me he simply does not have better musicality and expressiveness than Adam or Dai. To me, even Ten is more interesting to watch than Chan (Ten simply lacks confidence right now).
I do love Javi's win, but still that was a beautiful, mature program from Dai, and landing a quad should not trump when someone performs like Dai in the sp. And Chan has nothing on Dai -- so what Chan has blades to die for -- Dai's skating for me is way more emotionally affecting and expressive than Chan's.
Judge #4 gave
SS TR PE CH IN
Javi 8.5 8.0 9.0 8.5 9.0
Dai 7.5 7.75 8.75 9.0 8.5
PC 8.25 8.0 7.5 7.5 8.25
In contrast
Judge #3 gave
Javi 6.75 6.5 6.75 7.0 7.25
Dai 8.25 7.5 7.25 7.0 7.0
PC 9.0 8.5 8.5 8.75 8.75
Guess which judge is Canadian and which judge is Mexican?
SS TR PE CH IN
Javi 8.5 8.0 9.0 8.5 9.0
Dai 7.5 7.75 8.75 9.0 8.5
PC 8.25 8.0 7.5 7.5 8.25
In contrast
Judge #3 gave
Javi 6.75 6.5 6.75 7.0 7.25
Dai 8.25 7.5 7.25 7.0 7.0
PC 9.0 8.5 8.5 8.75 8.75
Guess which judge is Canadian and which judge is Mexican?
re: Patrick's SP
I noticed some turns here and there, such as the double one with his hands above his head, at the end of the footwork section; I think these were either new, or at least not executed in the same way in the past. This from just my hazy memory, anyway. I think there were minor enhancements to the footwork/transitions here and there. What I like with Patrick in general is that when such tweaking is done with him, even though he is typically showing off something new and difficult it all generally goes to further enhance his musical expression.. though he has a lot to show off, he's never just cramming in new difficult moves moves for the sake of it at the expense of the music. Contrary to some critics, I think he does have a musicality to him, even if his interpetation/performance skills are not on the level of Daisuke. Of course he would be well schooled in this by Lori.
However, when I mentionned the program feeling "stale" I'm thinking some of the other trademark and kinda "cutesy" moves in the choreo.. have been seen many times now, and Patrick is capable of so much that it's kinda boring seeing him go through those familiar motions after a while. This program is not like the Phantom one that never really had a good performance the first season around. Still, we will see what he does bring as the season progresses, because he is working on lots of fabulous stuff regardless..
I noticed some turns here and there, such as the double one with his hands above his head, at the end of the footwork section; I think these were either new, or at least not executed in the same way in the past. This from just my hazy memory, anyway. I think there were minor enhancements to the footwork/transitions here and there. What I like with Patrick in general is that when such tweaking is done with him, even though he is typically showing off something new and difficult it all generally goes to further enhance his musical expression.. though he has a lot to show off, he's never just cramming in new difficult moves moves for the sake of it at the expense of the music. Contrary to some critics, I think he does have a musicality to him, even if his interpetation/performance skills are not on the level of Daisuke. Of course he would be well schooled in this by Lori.
However, when I mentionned the program feeling "stale" I'm thinking some of the other trademark and kinda "cutesy" moves in the choreo.. have been seen many times now, and Patrick is capable of so much that it's kinda boring seeing him go through those familiar motions after a while. This program is not like the Phantom one that never really had a good performance the first season around. Still, we will see what he does bring as the season progresses, because he is working on lots of fabulous stuff regardless..
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Having watched both Dai and Patrick, I don't agree with the judges that Chan deserved better PCS marks than Takahashi. Unquestionably, Chan is a better "skater" than Fernandez and Rippon though in terms of speed, flow, and ease of the blade on the ice. I've always felt Adam has a heavy feeling across the ice, not the lightness of Chan or Takahashi.
Bottom line, Dai has a better program and more expressiveness. I think Chan is much more studied in his movements, whereas skaters like Dai and Adam to me move with a lot more natural, unstudied grace.
ETA: I'd agree with you on your above post, museksktr, that's the difference, Chan has a lightness re his blade work, and Adam is not as light on his skates, but he still flows with ease and energy when he's on. And, I still say that Adam has a more natural grace than Chan. Dai is way above Chan in maturity and expressiveness, but in general has some weaknesses in ss. This sp however, is a great one for Dai which highlights his strengths. Dai most definitely should have excelled in PCS over Chan in this sp. That's the problem that I have. When he doesn't deserve it, Chan always receives high PCS and benefit of doubt from judges -- that does not happen across the board for other top skaters. But that's figure skating.
ETA: I'd agree with you on your above post, museksktr, that's the difference, Chan has a lightness re his blade work, and Adam is not as light on his skates, but he still flows with ease and energy when he's on. And, I still say that Adam has a more natural grace than Chan. Dai is way above Chan in maturity and expressiveness, but in general has some weaknesses in ss. This sp however, is a great one for Dai which highlights his strengths. Dai most definitely should have excelled in PCS over Chan in this sp. That's the problem that I have. When he doesn't deserve it, Chan always receives high PCS and benefit of doubt from judges -- that does not happen across the board for other top skaters. But that's figure skating.
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Patrick's botched triple axel got a positive GOE...+0.29...KVDP's botched triple axel (which, to me, looked better than chan's) got -0.14....
Why do u think Adam's Rippon Lutz got so little positive GOE? I'm not a skater, but isn't it a lot harder normal hand position? On slow-mo it looked pretty high too.
Why do u think Adam's Rippon Lutz got so little positive GOE? I'm not a skater, but isn't it a lot harder normal hand position? On slow-mo it looked pretty high too.
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Yes, even with what I posted above, I simply don't like Chan's Take 5 program, last season or this season. IMO, it's the worst program he's ever had. I don't like the character he is portraying in it. Maybe because he is portraying a "hot shot" type of guy and it's too in line with how he is negatively perceived in the media with what he says and his big ego persona. I don't like that side of Patrick.
Personally, calbskate, I think that Adam was low-balled on the marks. He had one slight touch down with opposite foot on the 3-axel, otherwise an excellent program that should have scored higher. To me, Chan botched his quad, so why should he get so much cred for it. The scoring for Adam vs. Chan is largely based on rep, not their actual performances.
Right on, museksk8r, very well expressed. ITA.
I can see why you feel that way, museksk8r. So, I'm not trying to stir up a fight. but, for some reason, I have to review the program to know why, I feel it is much, much better this year. I will say without review that it didn't feel "cocky" to me this time. Something has changed, and I liked it quite a lot despite the errors.
Anyway, I still feel so happy for Javier. I don't think Adam was rubbed and not to keep repeating myself, but did others see or feel a joy in his skating that was missing before?? (and, Dai is to die for!!!!).
Anyway, I still feel so happy for Javier. I don't think Adam was rubbed and not to keep repeating myself, but did others see or feel a joy in his skating that was missing before?? (and, Dai is to die for!!!!).
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So the war began. A self-fulfilling prophecy at work--I like observing people's behavior.
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- Nov 7, 2007
It wasn't just the touch-down of the free foot that marred the axel--he was stalking the 3A A LOT and that never looks good. Also, he UR'd the 3-3 and his speed and power isn't really on par with the top men.....
http://www.youtube.com/user/NikaQuest#p/u/1/oGznt2zu6pI
this person amazingly had each skate up within minutes. Was almost as good as watching live.
Is currently posting the Short Dances too.
this person amazingly had each skate up within minutes. Was almost as good as watching live.
Is currently posting the Short Dances too.
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- Nov 7, 2007
It was superfluous as amateur had posted the exact same link right before me.....
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