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Thread: LADIES Long Program

  1. #286
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    I'll be honest, Olympia - I've thought she would benefit from a coaching change since last Nationals. You wrote before that you don't like to criticize the elite skaters simply because the sheer amount of work, time, money spent makes it so challenging to even get to that level and it doesn't feel right (and I've often found myself withdrawing words before I type for that reason). But this long program is not the program from someone who loves to skate. Her words at icenetwork were "Pray for a miracle" at Cup of China. At this point, I want generic competition speak from Mirai as opposed to that. I don't think Carroll is entireley blameless, but Nagasu has to shoulder this, not him.

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I'll be honest, Olympia - I've thought she would benefit from a coaching change since last Nationals. You wrote before that you don't like to criticize the elite skaters simply because the sheer amount of work, time, money spent makes it so challenging to even get to that level and it doesn't feel right (and I've often found myself withdrawing words before I type for that reason). But this long program is not the program from someone who loves to skate. Her words at icenetwork were "Pray for a miracle" at Cup of China. At this point, I want generic competition speak from Mirai as opposed to that. I don't think Carroll is entireley blameless, but Nagasu has to shoulder this, not him.
    Maybe another coach would be better for Mirai. But I absolutely DO think Mirai has responsibility for this as well. Frank like any coach isn't for everyone. BUT, Mirai has had similar problems with her last coach. Showing up inconsistent not well trained etc.

    At the end of the day if the skater doesn't want it, the skater doesn't want it.

  3. #288
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    People who say Mirai needs to go to Yuka and Jason need to realize that Alissa took responsibility for her skating and wanted to get better and worked her butt off. Plus they are no miracle workers. Jeremy didn't exactly light up the scoreboard last year and Adam doesn't look much improved. It's all up to Mirai to get in shape and want to skate. If she doesn't enjoy it she should quit.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Thanks for the link to Akiko's program! Loved it!

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I'll be honest, Olympia - I've thought she would benefit from a coaching change since last Nationals. You wrote before that you don't like to criticize the elite skaters simply because the sheer amount of work, time, money spent makes it so challenging to even get to that level and it doesn't feel right (and I've often found myself withdrawing words before I type for that reason). But this long program is not the program from someone who loves to skate. Her words at icenetwork were "Pray for a miracle" at Cup of China. At this point, I want generic competition speak from Mirai as opposed to that. I don't think Carroll is entireley blameless, but Nagasu has to shoulder this, not him.
    Also I found that Mirai's quote interesting when contrasted by Rachael's:

    "I am a competitor and I have to learn from today. It was tough performance, but it's all experience. I need more training under my belt."
    While Rachael's program was pretty much a meltdown, I still felt that there was still more life in Rachael's performance than Mirai's today. I know that a lot of Rachael's detractors wish she would quit, but the exact reason that Rachael doesn't is because she still ultimately loves it. Obviously one wants better results and to progress, but it's clear that a love for skating is very much the foundation of why she keeps going.

    I don't get that from Mirai. I feel that her decision to skate, as others said, is to obtain perfection. She desperately wants to live up to the potential everyone has put on her since she was a junior. But I don't know if that actually makes her happy.

  6. #291
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    Elizaveta Tuktamysheva's free skate (new British Eurosport version):-

    Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - Skate Canada 2011 - FS
    Last edited by Mao88; 10-30-2011 at 03:20 PM.

  7. #292
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    Tuktamisheva is good, and I like watching her to a point, but I can't get that excited about her yet. Something just seems bland about her. I enjoyed Akiko's FS way more.

  8. #293
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    I enjoyed Elisaveta for what she is, a 15 year old who debuted in seniors at SC and had two clean performances. It is beyond me how she can be compared with 26 year old Akiko and her gorgeous sophisticated programs. I would be worried if Liza had a common style with Akiko at this age, it would be abnormal. It is like comparing S/H to S/Z.
    Looking forward to COC and Adelina's debut NOW!
    Thanx for Eurosport link

  9. #294
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  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Also I found that Mirai's quote interesting when contrasted by Rachael's:



    While Rachael's program was pretty much a meltdown, I still felt that there was still more life in Rachael's performance than Mirai's today. I know that a lot of Rachael's detractors wish she would quit, but the exact reason that Rachael doesn't is because she still ultimately loves it. Obviously one wants better results and to progress, but it's clear that a love for skating is very much the foundation of why she keeps going.

    I don't get that from Mirai. I feel that her decision to skate, as others said, is to obtain perfection. She desperately wants to live up to the potential everyone has put on her since she was a junior. But I don't know if that actually makes her happy.
    Obtain perfection that sounds a lot like Sasha doesn't it? She was always looking for the perfect program which is why she faltered and could never do clean SP and LP at the same event. That and not able to handle nerves is killing Mirai's chances to become even a GP winner let alone Worlds.

  11. #296
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Obtain perfection that sounds a lot like Sasha doesn't it? She was always looking for the perfect program which is why she faltered and could never do clean SP and LP at the same event. That and not able to handle nerves is killing Mirai's chances to become even a GP winner let alone Worlds.
    I would be careful with this "she just wants to be perfect". I do believe that some women struggle with perfectionism, but it is starting to irk me that so many women attribute most of their lives' problems to "trying to be perfect". And considering how Mirai openly admitted in several interviews to being kind of a slob and to having attitude problems, I really doubt that "obtaining perfection" is the main problem here.

  12. #297
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    Oh boy, long time no comment on GS. (I've been on Twitter and FSU mostly now)

    Anyway, first off - the Russian has some real potential. But she is still young, and it remains to be seen whether she can adapt as her body changes from girl to woman. Still- it reminds me of the splash Asada and Kim made when they made their GP debut, and she is one to watch, particularly for Sochi.

    As for the Americans, well...some "early-season struggles" as expected, some worse than others. Great effort by Wagner to hang onto a podium finish, she's off to a good start. Unfortunately, the other two stumbled out of the gate. Nagasu wasn't TERRIBLE (like some fans would make you think), but clearly she has a bit of work to do in the next 3 months. Too bad that she competes again so soon (China next week). And Flatt- I've elaborated on her elsewhere, but like I said during the off-season- with school being the priority, I do not see her maintaining her high level of competitiveness. But man, she appeared to be COMPLETELY undertrained- she was practically gasping for breath near the end of her FS!

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    I would be careful with this "she just wants to be perfect". I do believe that some women struggle with perfectionism, but it is starting to irk me that so many women attribute most of their lives' problems to "trying to be perfect". And considering how Mirai openly admitted in several interviews to being kind of a slob and to having attitude problems, I really doubt that "obtaining perfection" is the main problem here.
    Actually, that isn't all that extreme to want to be perfect and be a slob/have an attitude problem. I'm not a competitive ice skater, but I know that for me personally the more I want to be perfect, the sloppier I am. I actually find that when I accept my limitations, I am a lot more productive with my time. I know that seems not logical but think of it this way: If you feel like you can't reach a certain level, you're going to feel somewhat defeated and you're going to let that stop you from doing what you have to do.

    Just reading Mirai's quotes in various media coverage, I sense this. She's been told repeatedly since she was 14 that she is the future of U.S. Figure Skating (and even said that she wants to be the future during her post-Nationals interview). But it's almost like when she sees that she can reach that higher standard, she sort of shirks and pulls back. When you want something so, so bad, you will tend to make stupid mistakes. It's human nature. And it's not healthy because then you get ot the point where you feel like nothing you can do will change things, you develop a defeated attitude.. That quote from this competition was scary. The fact that she felt she couldn't do anything before CofC and "hoped for a miracle" was a bit disconcerting.

    This is definite armchair psychology, so perhaps I'm wrong. I'm really hoping I'm wrong and that quote was just said out of emotion.

  14. #299
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Actually, that isn't all that extreme to want to be perfect and be a slob/have an attitude problem. I'm not a competitive ice skater, but I know that for me personally the more I want to be perfect, the sloppier I am.
    I totally understand that paradox of being a perfectionist. When I am pessimistic or doubtful about my ability to attain the perfection I desire at a given time, I feel the urge to give up easily.

    But, I think Medusa is just reminding us not to assume perfectionism for every case, and even when it's true, it's not a good excuse. It's a mindset and attitude that can be worked at--should be worked at--because if perfectionism is getting in the way, it is a character flaw.
    Last edited by prettykeys; 10-30-2011 at 11:37 PM.

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    Johnny Weir tweeted this Oct 29:

    "Congratulations to Elizaveta Tuktamysheva for winning in Canada. Such a shining star and looks like my little sister! Molodets Lizochka!"

    There is definitely a facial resemblance between them.

    Upthread re all the Mirai discussion -- seems to be lots of different takes. I say again that I feel Frank's approach for Mirai this season is all wrong. There is something that is not working for Mirai in both programs, especially the free program. Yes, Mirai is still talented and can do the choreo, but she's not happy doing the choreo and it shows. Definitely, she's had problems with focus over the last several years. But to me, it seems as if Frank is trying too hard to make her into another MK. Newsflash: There will not be another MK -- there will be other great skaters who possess magic, but they will not be MK. Take inspiration from MK, learn from what she accomplished, but find your own identity. Mirai already has her own style! She needs someone to help her fully realize it, but first she needs to decide for herself if she is skating for herself and for the right reasons. Mirai's focus problems are not helped, but only worsened by trying to shoehorn her into Michelle's skates/ programs/ costumes. JMHO.

    She may need a new coach and a new choreographer just for a fresh take and to discover a way to effectively present and sustain her own unique brand of magic throughout two programs, and throughout a whole season. Unfortunately, Mirai and her family may be afraid to leave Frank, unless Frank decides to dump her first. I do think Frank believes strongly in Mirai's talent, but he hasn't been able to work effectively with Mirai on an emotional level. Kwan and Evan wanted to be champions and when Frank said "I can show you how if you will listen and do everything I say," they both signed on with full commitment and enthusiasm, not to mention hard work -- they were both driven, and were able to focus with intensity and competitive fire. Frank was spoiled by his star pupils. OTOH, Bowman had emotional problems that prevented him from realizing his potential. Frank gave up on Goebel apparently, reportedly feeling Goebel was not living up to his standards re work ethic (although Goebel has a slightly different perspective on their parting).

    I don't know whether Yuka and Jason would be the right coaches for Mirai (maybe Nicks might be, but he's not working full-time now and he has Ashley under his wing). I don't think any coach is exactly "a miracle worker." However, Yuka and Jason are very good coaches, and have been extremely helpful to both Alissa and Jeremy, IMO -- they seem to have great skill in working with skaters on the emotional/psychological aspects. BTW, please stop with the Jeremy dissing -- he was not "struggling" under his former coach in Colorado. I think he simply needed a change of scene and a fresh outlook, as that rink was beginning to be a bit crammed with male contenders. I don't think Jeremy's former coach, Z, made the right decision either by sending Jeremy to Four Continents after he won Nats in 2009 -- it seemed to have adversely affected Abbott in his pacing for Worlds that year. Perhaps Jeremy was unfairly low-balled on the scoring in last year's GP b/c the judges still had an Olympic hangover regarding their view of Jeremy (his rep had been damaged). Despite difficult programs and wonderful transitions and interpretation of the music, Jeremy was not rewarded with great marks, but he still won medals during last year's GP.

    Alissa is doing quite well. I'm eager to see Jeremy at CoC, and I think Adam has good programs and a fresh outlook, but maybe is struggling more with his 3-axels, due to training the quad.

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