Men's Long Program

Medusa said:

Some random Spaniard just got pretty close. Plus you can go through the Skate-Canada archives of the last few years - and there you can read what you just said over and over again. Once or twice I also said that two years ago. But it never really turned out that was, other than last season when he started to complete these insanely perfect programs.

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Chan skated clean perfect programs at Nationals and Worlds as far as I remember.

I m sad for Dai's pcs, and thanx for explaining me about his TES. I feel judges dont excuse him when he makes mistakes anymore and his pcs are afffected too..Still his sp was the highlight of the whole competition.

I wanna say just this: Patrick only skate to the music...Daisuke lives it! That for me is the big difference between the two. Daisuke's blues is out of this world IMO. It's such a difficult music to skate to and there's a big risk that you may find it boring in 4 and a half minutes but daisuke really takes it on another level. In three years he tried every style he could doing perfectly in all of them...cannot say the same for patrick..he seems to prefere old warhorses (and he didn't need to seeing the scores he gets anyway).
But I have to say he was GREAT doing that lutz just after the stumble!! I didn't expect it!! He IS a great competitor!

Good job for all of them!! And I'm so happy for Javier! Un programa estupendo Javi!

I am so glad the Skate Canada's men's event was not a repeat of last season. This time Chan wins, and I can agree with it . . . thank goodness! He so should have finished 3rd last year, but he deserved 1st this go round. Even with the technical mistakes, I'll say well done to him, and I'll go out on a limb and say that this season's LP may be my favorite program ever by Patrick. I really love the dance qualities he brings to this program and his speed and edge work are amazing! I still don't believe he beats Daisuke or even Jeremy Abbott in terms of interpreting music and character, but what he does do well (transitions, skating skills, and choreography) are all first rate!

Javi dear, I love you to pieces, and you only miss the gold medal by some 3+ points . . . that's remarkable and I love the many improvements you've made in your skating! He really gave P. Chiddy quite the challenge here and I love it! As others have said, I really hope he wins the European title this season!

Daisuke's injury really seems to have created quite the setback in terms of his ability to consistently complete the more difficult jumps. His struggles with the quad and 3Axel were too costly for him in the LP, especially competing against the likes of Chan and Fernandez. Still, in this event, his charisma and musical interpretation are unmatched I think.

Rippon's eternal troubles with the 3Axel continue to haunt him, and he's going to need to resolve those issues by the time Nationals roll around since the USA can only send 2 men to Worlds this season.

I really love what I saw of Andrei Rogozine! With Jeremy Ten unfortunately out of commission, I'd love to see Rogozine become Canada's #2 in the men's disciple and be able to go to senior Worlds!

I'm glad I can finish watching this year's Skate Canada without being fuming mad. The judges overall got this one right. :yes:

I think Dai and Javi had the best sp, with Adam an honorable mention. I think Ross had the better overall free program -- at least I enjoyed watching him the most. The other top guys' programs are obviously still a bit rusty.

Love Dai. Can't wait to see his ex.

Thanks for your input museks8r (fair and balanced). Glad you're not "fuming mad." I'm not either, but I just don't like IJS and the quad -- way too complicated and confusing scoring that takes something away from the artistic whole and the idea of consistency and going clean. I miss the days of 6.0 (not one of the top guys should have received 6.0 for their efforts). But under IJS, wrack up the points, no matter how many marring errors your program contained. Also think the sp and fp should be separated with individual medals for each.

Thanks again PoodlePal. I'm so glad I didn't have to sit through listening to Carruthers' ecstasy episode.

Art&Sport said:

Javi was great in the sp (seemingly inspired by Jeremy Abbott's new swing sp, suspenders and all). Javi was good but not great in the free program. It doesn't hurt here that his coach is Canadian.

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I do think there was an Orser bonus for Fernandez here but also agree that at Worlds 2011 he was undermarked in PCS. Same thing for Euros. I do not expect Fernandez to get NINES outside of Skate Canada in any way.

Javier beat Patrick in TES by 0.66 points, which is pretty much due to the random fall. Not a real fall even. He put his hands down to break the fall and got right up. Patrick is up 6.5 PCS points over Javi. Patrick has been focusing on presentation rather than technical elements and it showed in the PCS which will likely go higher later in the season.

Takahashi lacked energy in JO besides the jump errors but I had hoped he was back with that SP but the LP did him in again. That program demands energy. He also lost points because he is courageously stubborn to put the 4F he doesn't really have in his LPs. It's always downgraded and two footed, earning him just 3.2 points, less than any other triple would bring him.

eta. My mistake. Chan's TES quoted is before deduction so Javier won straight. I have to add the way Chan floats all over the ice is a marvelous sight.

gmyers said:

I do think there was an Orser bonus for Fernandez here but also agree that at Worlds 2011 he was undermarked in PCS. Same thing for Euros. I do not expect Fernandez to get NINES outside of Skate Canada in any way.

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Or could it be David Wilson bonus--I mean a COP-friendly choreography that milks as many points as could? I don't know the answer. I'm just guessing.

Btw my marks incomprehension aside, Patrick 's Lp is really his best so far, he does some great choreo stuff and he just flies for the whole 4 minutes,my fav moment is when he kneeds down for a second in his circular I think steps, I was thinking when watching that it makes his sp look old news, since he is certainly an improved performer since he made that sp. My least fav moment was the spread eagle cause I thought it was at the same highlight point as in phantom. I think his fans would be pleased to know that Uk Eurosport said he has a touch of John Curry but more athletic.
I thought Javiers Lp is rather boring, much prefered his sp surprise.

If you look at just Chan's recent programs, POTO, Take Five, and Aranjuez, plus the ex numbers, he is showing a great range and versatility.

Chan steals another competition!

How do you get 9.50 for Skating Skills when you fall on crossovers? Does not compute. He obviously still does have superb SS, but that's unbelievably ridiculous. He didn't just get gifted with undeserved PCS either, he also got a large helping of over-the-top +GOE. I really hate these bonuses the "chosen" skaters get just because of their reputation.

I can see the argument for Chan winning the FS, even though I feel Javier deserved to edge him out there, but Chan should have been far enough behind in the SP that it wouldn't matter.

For my money, Javier had better choreography, interpretation, and performance here. I don't feel like writing a wall of text comparing their choreograph and interpretation at the moment but, in terms of that performance component, Javier never stopped selling the program even when the jumps weren't firing perfectly, whereas Chan looked relatively timid and disconnected throughout much of his performance.

Poodlepal said:

I am looking forward to the day Patrick Chan signs his million dollar deal with the Scott Hamilton Ice Show or wherever and moves on. I can't take him any more, I really can't.

Today, he messed up a couple of times. So did everybody else. But what did the announcers say? To paraphrase a little, "He fell because he's so wonderful! He cares! You don't know how hard it is! He fell because he's such a great skater he couldn't help himself! He's like a dancer! The skates are like lead weights on his feet!"

You can all yell at me now.

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I wouldn't yell at you- you have it down perfectly- Peter Carruthers is a total Chan-fan (Terry Gannon was sort of busting him).

skatinginbc said:

Or could it be David Wilson bonus--I mean a COP-friendly choreography that milks as many points as could? I don't know the answer. I'm just guessing.

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Judges were not anywhere near consistent so I am not sure. You from 6's to 9's. That's kind of rare. There was a Spanish judge and a American and Canadian judge. You go from left to right on the protocol and Fernandez's scores decline. Maybe just were not ready to embrace the new spanish skater but 9 is high.

I would like to respond to the poster who said,
"He may the best of the current male skaters, but to me he is not on the level of say, Alexei Yagudin or the young Evgeni Plushenko, who did quads, skated clean and reached out to the audience."

They were able to front load their programs. They did not have the same level of transitions either going into and out of jumps. I think P. Chan's program is much more difficult all around. I would agree though, that it is going to be difficult to get many clean programs with the level of transitions etc demanded of the skaters today. That is why Chan's long at worlds was so impressive.

Nothing is new there. If you could, you would have him 2nd at the Canadian National as well.

Blades of Passion said:

Chan steals another competition!

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Of course I would have him 2nd at Canadian Nationals if someone else deserved to place higher. That's how these things (should) work - you get scored for what you do at the present competition and nothing else.

You have to be there to appreciate Patrick Chan's skating. It was beyond words can describe. TV does not do him justice.

I agree totally ilvskating. Patrick absolutely blew my away. Yes he fell a couple of times but his skating is on a level that is unbelievable. It was jaw dropping. He also looks thinner and even more fit.

I just heard from CTV that Chan has been studying Jeffrey Buttle's performance videos to learn from his artistry.