Free Dance

[dorispulaski]

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FD_Scores.pdf

Protocols.

R&T's deduction reads "music restriction violation" which was what Z&G's music violation read. Z&G's was for no discernible beat for some number of seconds. There are other music violations in the world though.

The shocks here were Chock & Bates coming in 4th ahead of R&T (especially surprising since C&B weren't good in the SD) and C&L finishing ahead of W&P in the free dance. With F&S retired, C&L suddenly have new life and more speed in their skating, which is a good thing!

[ImaginaryPogue]

Disagree with me all you want but please don't tell me what I'm arguing. I thought Mahler was fabulous the first time I saw it. And I suggested improvements precisely so that V/M's program can be more competitive with D/W. I realize I misspoke by saying "never" but I meant "never in this form" ie not unless they rework it with improvements such as those I immediately tried to suggest... or better ones!

I usually prefer V/M to D/W because the latter are too busy and less emotional but this is one time when IMO D/W have turned their strengths into an advantage.

Okay. This is what you said

Nope. V/M will never catch D/W with that FD. Have to eat my words.

And

Only in Canada. Or: Only when they're not competing head to head.

How should I have taken that as written?

That said, I agree with KKonas - the buzz for D/W is certainly stronger at this point than the buzz for V/M.

[Axel Rose]

I agree with Katia. At first, I thought D/W's FD was slightly better than V/M's (based on their Finlandia performance), but after watching it again, I was less impressed and less interested in watching it. On the other hand, V/M's FD gets better each time I watch it - I really started noticing the subtle moves in between the big moves and their extension. I felt this way about their Mahler program and by the Olympics, that program surpassed all of my expectations. It changed the way I watched ice dancing. I'm not saying that their current FD is necessarily of that quality, but I do think they tend to refine their programs and peak at the right time. I like that their FD is like watching a classic Golden Age movie.

[Spun Silver]

Okay. This is what you said



And



How should I have taken that as written?

That said, I agree with KKonas - the buzz for D/W is certainly stronger at this point than the buzz for V/M.

Actually KKonas agrees with me as far as I can see. Look, I've explained myself and admitted I could have been clearer. Feel free to spend your afternoon picking me apart if that's your idea of fun. I just rewatched the programs and haven't changed my mind. D/W's FD is their Mahler - the effervescence of the music is a perfect fit for their speed and lightness, and all the work they've done allows them to sparkle like diamonds in this program. V/M's FD is humdrum by comparison. I don't doubt that they'll do it better and better over the season but IMO it will take major revisions to beat D/W. And if they beat D/W in Canada with the two programs comparable to what they are now, you can bet there will be controversy. Anyway, that's as much as I'm interested in saying about it. (For today.) I feel as though I've been glued to my desk for 10 days and we have many comps to go!

[museksk8r]

C&L finishing ahead of W&P in the free dance. With F&S retired, C&L suddenly have new life and more speed in their skating, which is a good thing!

Anna & Luca definitely deserved to place higher than Kaitlyn & Andrew in the FD. Weaver & Poje had 3 noticeably uneasy moments in that dance. His failure to grab his blade in the twizzle, her going slightly off balance in the 3rd/last twizzle, and her exit from the last lift looked very labored. Weaver & Poje have always been inconsistent, which is why I never understood the opinion of some that they were totally going to dominate Anna & Luca here. They are not a clearly superior team over the Italians. Had Anna & Luca not given up some levels on elements in the SD, they would have won silver here. The final result was extremely close between the two of them!

[Mattieu]

Riazanova/Tkachenko got at music restriction violations of -2.00. Not uplifting enough or no discernable beat?

Most likely the deduction was due to a lack of change of tempo. There was no audible change of tempo, either immediate or building, the music was all in the same tempo.

[blue_idealist]

Most likely the deduction was due to a lack of change of tempo. There was no audible change of tempo, either immediate or building, the music was all in the same tempo.

They better change that, because a 2 point deduction for the rest of the season is really going to hurt!

Btw, loved V/M and C/L's FDs. I would say I like V/M's a bit better than D/W, but that's just personal preference, not from a technical standpoint. From a technical standpoint, it's hard to say.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Actually KKonas agrees with me as far as I can see. Look, I've explained myself and admitted I could have been clearer. Feel free to spend your afternoon picking me apart if that's your idea of fun. I just rewatched the programs and haven't changed my mind. D/W's FD is their Mahler - the effervescence of the music is a perfect fit for their speed and lightness, and all the work they've done allows them to sparkle like diamonds in this program. V/M's FD is humdrum by comparison. I don't doubt that they'll do it better and better over the season but IMO it will take major revisions to beat D/W. And if they beat D/W in Canada with the two programs comparable to what they are now, you can bet there will be controversy. Anyway, that's as much as I'm interested in saying about it. (For today.) I feel as though I've been glued to my desk for 10 days and we have many comps to go!

Apologies.

Anna & Luca definitely deserved to place higher than Kaitlyn & Andrew in the FD. Weaver & Poje had 3 noticeably uneasy moments in that dance. His failure to grab his blade in the twizzle, her going slightly off balance in the 3rd/last twizzle, and her exit from the last lift looked very labored. Weaver & Poje have always been inconsistent, which is why I never understood the opinion of some that they were totally going to dominate Anna & Luca here. They are not a clearly superior team over the Italians. Had Anna & Luca not given up some levels on elements in the SD, they would have won silver here. The final result was extremely close between the two of them!

I think it was confusion over how well trained they were going to turn up, how closely they were working with Morosov (given that they have two great programs, not at all it seems) and assumption of home ice advantage. I personally prefered both their program to W/P, though I think the final result is exactly right.

[apple123]

Did anyone see C/L's ex, I have to say again, they are great story tellers, so fun to watch!

[jcoates]

I love all the mildly dismissive assumptions that V/M will refine and improve their FD to the level of complete perfection and have done so every season the last few years; but somehow D/W will remain at the same level all season, can't possibly refine or enhance their expression to the same degree (w/ the implication that they have not refined past programs either). The expectation seems to be tied to the general consensus about their abilities, skills and potential that existed when both teams were rookies and sophomores. Everyone assumed back then that all things, being equal on a technical level, V/M would and should win out in all circumstances due to superior expression or dance quality or ability to relate to each other. That opinion was based primarily on impressions of musicality, interaction, line, posture, timing, foot position, and expression. Over time that opinion has persisted with many fans.

I wonder, however, if that is now merely a comfortable assumption that is easy to fall back on. Haven't D/W improved tremendously in some of those areas? Have they not shown that some of their own strengths can and do count just as much (speed, energy, projection out to the audience, abandon)? Samson and Delilah was much more refined by Worlds than it was at SC or CoR. Phantom was its sharpest at Worlds when a post-Oly hangover would have been perfectly understandable. Their tango last year was a constant work in progress throughout the season and even many of its detractors admitted there was much more punch to it in Moscow that at previous events. (BTW all three FDs beat VM in that segment at Worlds.) So given that track record, vastly improved PCS over the years, and the reception their FD has gotten so far, is it really fair to assume that D/W won't be able to keep pace with whatever improvements V/M will inevitably make to their program?

[blue_idealist]

I love all the mildly dismissive assumptions that V/M will refine and improve their FD to the level of complete perfection and have done so every season the last few years; but somehow D/W will remain at the same level all season, can't possibly refine or enhance their expression to the same degree (w/ the implication that they have not refined past programs either). The expectation seems to be tied to the general consensus about their abilities, skills and potential that existed when both teams were rookies and sophomores. Everyone assumed back then that all things, being equal on a technical level, V/M would and should win out in all circumstances due to superior expression or dance quality or ability to relate to each other. That opinion was based primarily on impressions of musicality, interaction, line, posture, timing, foot position, and expression. Over time that opinion has persisted with many fans.

I wonder, however, if that is now merely a comfortable assumption that is easy to fall back on. Haven't D/W improved tremendously in some of those areas? Have they not shown that some of their own strengths can and do count just as much (speed, energy, projection out to the audience, abandon)? Samson and Delilah was much more refined by Worlds than it was at SC or CoR. Phantom was its sharpest at Worlds when a post-Oly hangover would have been perfectly understandable. Their tango last year was a constant work in progress throughout the season and even many of its detractors admitted there was much more punch to it in Moscow that at previous events. (BTW all three FDs beat VM in that segment at Worlds.) So given that track record, vastly improved PCS over the years, and the reception their FD has gotten so far, is it really fair to assume that D/W won't be able to keep pace with whatever improvements V/M will inevitably make to their program?

Makes a lot of sense to me, but then again, I'm not the one trying to argue the other side.

[wallylutz]

Don't think this redux of That's Entertaiment FD is even close to a masterpiece. Terrible music cuts and rather boring.

In other words, your unflattering remarks suggest Zueva/Shpilband did a horrible job in putting this FD together? Or is this just a question of personal preference, like you prefer orange and someone else likes apple better?

They also got one point less for this dance than D&W in Canada no less.

A point, wow... do you seriously believe or want any reasonable person to believe this means anything at all when their respective total score is 170+, which is barely 0.5% of the total. Maybe you were confused that last week's Skate America actually took place in Ontario, Canada. Or that it's not possible the judges could also inflate D/W's score when skating in America. Could it be that different panels have different latitude in scoring, which makes it hard to compare scores between two competitions just like different baseball umpires have different strike zones? Doesn't seem like your reasoning has considered any of these at all.

There already is a buzz in the skating world re D&W waltz, which has already been labelled a classic.

I thoroughly enjoyed D/W's FD at Skate America. To me, it's also their best FD ever thus far in their career. Frankly, I have no idea who is better at this point and wouldn't want to put any bets on either. Further to that, I also think it's premature to start labelling anything yet. Some people could well feel they have seen a classic. I am not going to dispute such label that is inherently personal. In my experience, it is not helpful to the skaters to put this into their head after just one competition. I am however confident D/W doesn't buy into those unnecessary chatters because they know they have a lot of work to do still if they wish to defend their world title. As for V/M, it's been what...barely a few hours since they first presented their FD on the GP series for the first time, the ice dance judges' meeting for this competition isn't even done yet, do you believe there are enough time lapsed to assess the temperature of D/W's rivals? What I see however, I can honestly say I feel very comfortable with.

D&W just need to work more on the SD, but their waltz is sublime.

Well, I certainly hope they don't listen to such recommendation. The FD still counts for about 60% of the total score, it would be foolish to dismiss V/M's competitiveness based on some very selective chatters at the beginning of the season.

[Buttercup]

Did anyone see C/L's ex, I have to say again, they are great story tellers, so fun to watch!

It was so much fun! One of the few highlights in a sleep-inducing gala; the only others I enjoyed were Akiko and Javi.

As for the FD, that was also blah. Did Marina accidentally give Tessa and Scott the Shibs' choreo?

[blackswanphoto]

and people forget this is the second time V/M have competed their program and had already had feedback from judges at Finlandia, plus their free dance is older than D/W. D/W showed up at their first competition of the season with a program that is only 1 month old and blew every free dance V/M ever did in their career out of the water. It's no wonder the other teams and their fans are starting to crap in their pants because thats just scary good what D/W was able to do with that program in such short time. On top of that D/W screwed up their twizzles in the short dance and still got a whopping high score. The only way D/W can lose at wolds is if they screw up their short dance or blatant cheating. that's just the facts.

[amateur]

V/M's program and performance were just marvelous, for me. Pure joyous skating, masterful, seamless, well interpreted. Great.