Free Dance | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Free Dance

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
No disrespect towards Finlandia Trophy and the Finnish people intended, that was a B competition whose only difference vs. summer competition in North America such as Liberty and Thronhill is that it is ISU sanctioned. In other words, it's only been seen by a very limited audience. That is why in my earlier remark, I was very careful to state "the first time in the GP Series". GP Series are widely broadcasted in Europe and Asia such as Eurosport in multiple countries - this is what will enable a larger audience to formulate an opinion.

Its still a competition. Does not matter the audience size. D/W free dance will go down as the greatest and most difficult in the history of the sport. I do not understand why some people just can't let go of their pride and admit it. Some posters already have. It's not so difficult to do :)

it's an honor to witness such a great moment in skating history that D/W is creating. there have been so few of them over the past few years. Not since the days of kwan has skating been this good. And who ever would have thought it would be coming from ice dancing
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
D/W free dance will go down as the greatest and most difficult in the history of the sport. I do not understand why some people just can't let go of their pride and admit it. Some posters already have. It's not so difficult to do :)

it's an honor to witness such a great moment in skating history that D/W is creating. there have been so few of them over the past few years. Not since the days of kwan has skating been this good. And who ever would have thought it would be coming from ice dancing

Um....a lot of what you said here is opinion. And people are entitled to their own opinions.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
jcoates, for me it comes down to several things.

a) I've never seen D/W turn up as ready as they have at SA. You mention refining the program, but the judges are already giving them nines and tens. They can't score elevens. Admittedly, I suspect D/W are closer to their ceiling than V/M are, and that's part of it.

b) Already, people are already suggesting that the only way V/M can win is through cheating, so I hope you take as much issue with that as with the mildly dismissive comments you called out.

c) Sure, I'll admit it - my reticence about D/W's dance aside, it's clear they haven't rested on their laurels. They've improved much about posture, movement (more clear in the SD imo) and their attack, of course, is legendary.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Finally saw Virtue/Moir's free dance for the first time. And despite them being my fave ice dancers, I am not feeling this ish. It's treacly and trite, no depth of emotion or sincerity, no sense of adventure or excitement. It's a far cry from Mahler or Pink Floyd, or even the attempt at samba in the FD last season. The whole concept is basically comfort food, something familiar, unchallenging and inoffensive, and with so little substance it's more of a snack than a meal.
 

nemequittepas

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
You know, I have not been on Golden Skate for all that long. But it has turned out to be a wonderful place to get up to date information or links for programs in the beginning of the season and during competitions and such. But I find it quite disheartening to see that many of the comments remind me of ridiculous debates that are all over youtube these days comparing every female singer to Lady Gaga, or to I don't know, Justin Bieber or something. It all seems so childish. When it comes down to it, both Tessa and Scott, and Meryl and Charlie are changing ice dance as it has been known. They are both amazing teams, with great technical ability and artistic ability. Skaters like that only come around once in a while. We should all be grateful that there are 2 teams like them around at the same time so that they all push each other to elevate the sport. Some people prefer one team, others prefer the other. To proclaim outlandish things just to elevate one of the teams is extremely immature and off-putting to the point that I may need to find another place to get my info and links.

Now that I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for the links. I loved Tessa & Scott's FD. Not my favourite of theirs, but can't get much better than that. I feel the same way about Meryl and Charlie's from last week. Can't wait to see who lays it down on the night at the GPF.
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
jcoates, for me it comes down to several things.

a) I've never seen D/W turn up as ready as they have at SA. You mention refining the program, but the judges are already giving them nines and tens. They can't score elevens. Admittedly, I suspect D/W are closer to their ceiling than V/M are, and that's part of it.

b) Already, people are already suggesting that the only way V/M can win is through cheating, so I hope you take as much issue with that as with the mildly dismissive comments you called out.

c) Sure, I'll admit it - my reticence about D/W's dance aside, it's clear they haven't rested on their laurels. They've improved much about posture, movement (more clear in the SD imo) and their attack, of course, is legendary.

a) They can certainly refine some minor unison issues in the SD beyond their twizzles. Of course the Rhumba sections can go up a level as can the Nt Cir steps. Of course, I expect V/M to do the same. In the end both teams can dial up better latin interpretation in sections of their dance. I feel at this point Charlie and Meryl are more even in their latin movement together than Tessa and Scott. By that I mean Meryl and Tessa are both fairly natural in their hip and shoulder movement (women usually pick those moves up faster anyway) while Charlie appears to have a bit better movement and looseness in his hips and shoulders than Scott. Their hip movement is also better distributed throughout the dance then V/M at this point IMO. That can change over time, I know.

I admit there is less room for improvement with the FD, at least in the case of PCS. But frankly, there is not much room for V/M in that regard either. Both teams are coming awfully close to reaching the current scoring ceilings presently available, particularly for PCS. Once they perfect their step sequences, they will be pushing the tech limits as well.
b) I certainly agree with you on that point. As I'm sure you remember, accusations of cheating if a victory doesn't match one's preferred path to achieving it are major pet peeves of mine. It's frankly a lazy form of argument that too many people rely on when they can't explain or accept another point of view. V/M may well win GPF or Worlds this year, and I have little doubt that if they do, they will deserve it. They are brilliant skaters, technicians and artists. My only point is that they should not be give the benefit of the doubt by default over D/W in the current landscape. They are probably as totally equal head to head as they have ever been during their careers.
c) I think you and I are very often mirror images of each other in our ice dance preferences. You prefer V/M consistently, while I favor D/W. :) Yet we both greatly respect and often enjoy both teams.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
My take on things is that V/M and D/W, from my perspective are still pretty much even at this point. They are practically tied as far as overall score and it's not surprising that V/M did better in the SD (V/M tend to do better in the compulsory parts, I'd say) and that D/W is ahead in the FD (which as jcoates mention D/W beat V/M in this segment in the last three years). So really I would not to gamble on either team.

I think the more interesting story here is who will fight for bronze come Worlds. C/L had a strong showing here and so did W/P. (And for that matter C/B did well in the FS as well) I probably would've had the Italians ahead, but that's neither here nor there. I was impressed with P/B in Skate America. I think those three will give a run for anyone's money to get on that podium if they continue to progress.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Yankees are devils. That you compared D/W or V/M to them is an affront to my very soul.

..... Wait, do they play soccer or tennis?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Yankees are devils. That you compared D/W or V/M to them is an affront to my very soul.

..... Wait, do they play soccer or tennis?

Honestly, I'm just happy that neither team was nowhere near this year's World Series title.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
I know. But do you really and truly believe their program is the equal of D/W?
Whether this program is the equal of D/W or not, THE SCORE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BECAUSE IT'S IN CANADA! Please stop creating some scandal or accusation that's not true.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
I really dont think you can compare one of the all time greats like D/W with pretty much anyone anymore. That free dance will be what future generations look back on for years to come.

After all these years finally another BOLERO!
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Mrs. P makes a really good point. There are two really, really exciting races shaping up for this season. Obviously for gold between D/W and V/M. But also for bronze between P/B, the Shibs, W/P, and C/L so far. Also, it will be interesting to see how the Russian teams hold up and if they can maintain their current foothold, move up or lose any more ground. Given how long their programs have been out there, it's fairly disconcerting that R/T would suffer a music deduction so late in the process. Worse, their program was not well received, deduction or not, relative to a team who fell in a previous segment and that was only formed in the last few months. I'll be curious to see how I/K and B/S perform in the coming weeks. Stavisky was not keen on their programs as seen at the test skates according to an interview he gave a few weeks ago, particularly the SDs. I could see up to 6-7 teams realistically vying for bronze next March. That will be a lot of fun to watch.

I wonder if they will lose ground or set themselves up with large deficits after their SDs if they have not improved their overall composition. Latin dances really require authentic and very specific character more than other styles. From what I say exhibited at the test skates, there really was no latin feel to what they put out. That may be a cultural issue rather than an indication of their work ethic or intent. Just as some more classical dance styles have favored European teams in the past, this latin theme may slightly favor NA or western European teams just a tad. Their technical elements may be there, but their PCS will likely be hurt if the composition of the dances is not improved. So even if they have high quality FDs, they may be too far behind. We'll have to wait and see. It should be very interesting.
 

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
We are lucky to witness 2 such great teames at the same time than V/M and D/W.

I love them both, but prefer V/M because of the more poetic artistic ability.

This last WorldChamp. V/M has showed an epic, unusual performance which is one of the most memorable one, but couldn't win, because they couldn't quite get the judges' appreciation being the WorldChampionship their first competition of the year (and it was a tendency to create History with the first ever USA WCH in ice dance...)

Many of us has a feeling it would be somehow fair to get V/M crown back, and our joined feeling is that, with this FD it will not be possible (my very strict opinion).

Last year D/W won with their less impressive FD in the last couple of years but now their FD is a masterpiece.

V/M program simply doesn't let them to Show all of their bright, fantastic quality. That what annoyes us, because we want to see 2 gorgeous program, and the result must be decided by the quality of the performance not the quality of the program only.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Just prior to CoR in 2009, there was a report about the early mornings both Meryl and Charlie had, being students while being high level athletes. Charlie said that the way he motivated himself to get out of bed was by repeating "0.04" to himself (the amount they lost the bronze medal by in 2009, and perhaps the flukiest loss in bronze medal history, up until 2011 anyway). Clearly both had worked like mad over the summer and when I saw POTO at CoR, I was blown away. The vigour, the committment, the sheer chutzpah of the whole thing. I've mentioned before that I think Samson and Delilah was D/W's best FD and I don't think that I'm gonna change my mind any time soon - certainly not this year, but that was so thrilling an athletic spectacle that I couldn't help but applaud (putting aside my aforementioned feelings on the music). I think anyone underestimating their hunger or their work ethic is doing so at their own peril, and I'm confident that Tessa and Scott are the last people to do that.

If you asked me to bet right now, I'd bet on Davis/White. But what I don't feel is that the result is preordained or inevitable. I feel to do so would be dismissive of both teams as competitors and the feeling I have that the judges are probably really hoping one of them makes a mistake and makes their job easier. I think fans (except a few ubers on both sides) are hoping for the opposite.
 

nemequittepas

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
But what I don't feel is that the result is preordained or inevitable. I feel to do so would be dismissive of both teams as competitors and the feeling I have that the judges are probably really hoping one of them makes a mistake and makes their job easier. I think fans (except a few ubers on both sides) are hoping for the opposite.
Exactly!
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Are you just trying to be funny? You cant be serious...

Are you trying to be funny by not acknowledging a masterpiece? No program has garnered so much admiration since Kwan's Salome' and the hype would be even bigger if skating had the audience it once had. Maybe this program will start to bring people back to the sport.
 
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