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Thread: Free Dance

  1. #76
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    Oh, give me a break, do you honestly believe what you just typed or you just try to stir sth up? D/W's FS is so generic and empty, a classic? laugh my *** off! I don't wanna get into it anymore, as I said, let's wait and see at the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackswanphoto View Post
    and people forget this is the second time V/M have competed their program and had already had feedback from judges at Finlandia, plus their free dance is older than D/W. D/W showed up at their first competition of the season with a program that is only 1 month old and blew every free dance V/M ever did in their career out of the water. It's no wonder the other teams and their fans are starting to crap in their pants because thats just scary good what D/W was able to do with that program in such short time. On top of that D/W screwed up their twizzles in the short dance and still got a whopping high score. The only way D/W can lose at wolds is if they screw up their short dance or blatant cheating. that's just the facts.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I don't doubt that they'll do it better and better over the season but IMO it will take major revisions to beat D/W. And if they beat D/W in Canada with the two programs comparable to what they are now, you can bet there will be controversy.
    What are the major revisions you have in mind? Have you had the chance to study the protocols before commenting?

    You lost me as to why you feel there would be controversy if V/M beat D/W at the GPF? It's one thing to express personal preference for a skater/team over another but to suggest people who disagree with my viewpoint is necessarily wrong as though it's a fact, that's what you are doing and puzzling to me . I have been reading some of these comments carefully but no one has yet pointed out to me in details what major flaws they saw in V/M's FD. I am in fact quite curious to know what they saw that I didn't see. I see things they need to work on and the obvious ones are upping the levels on both their step sequences but that's not a structural problem or a major flaw. As for the GPF, let's at least wait till they both qualify before starting to "speculate" the chickens. If they do qualify, any little slips in either the level or the execution could significantly affect the outcome of the actual competition. More often than not, the difference between these two come down to the TES, rather than just PCS alone. I just don't think any doomsday theory about yet another controversy in Ice Dance is warranted at this time, such speculation is not healthy for this sport at all especially when it seems it's made without any just cause.

  3. #78
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    D/W free dance is the best thing since sliced bread. And you know it!

  4. #79
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    No team has gotten level 4 in a step sequence this season, AFAIK.
    I expect both V&M and D&W to have some level 4's as the season moves along.

    Both teams tinker with their dances, sometimes majorly, and sometimes minorly, every season.
    Really no assumptions can be made about how they will finish up at the GPF or Worlds.

    And the team that wins the GPF may not win worlds--we've had that with D&W and V&M before.

    It's amazing to have one of the great rivalries playing out for us over several seasons!!

    I'm thrilled.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackswanphoto View Post
    and people forget this is the second time V/M have competed their program and had already had feedback from judges at Finlandia, plus their free dance is older than D/W.
    No disrespect towards Finlandia Trophy and the Finnish people intended, that was a B competition whose only difference vs. summer competition in North America such as Liberty and Thronhill is that it is ISU sanctioned. In other words, it's only been seen by a very limited audience. That is why in my earlier remark, I was very careful to state "the first time in the GP Series". GP Series are widely broadcasted in Europe and Asia such as Eurosport in multiple countries - this is what will enable a larger audience to formulate an opinion.

    D/W showed up at their first competition of the season with a program that is only 1 month old and blew every free dance V/M ever did in their career out of the water.
    Well, I guess 110 is a smaller number than 107 indeed. Please don't let facts get in the way of your "enthusiasm".

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/SEG009.HTM

    It's no wonder the other teams and their fans are starting to crap in their pants because thats just scary good what D/W was able to do with that program in such short time. On top of that D/W screwed up their twizzles in the short dance and still got a whopping high score. The only way D/W can lose at wolds is if they screw up their short dance or blatant cheating. that's just the facts.
    Right, so much that the current standing in the GP Series is as follows:

    http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2011/gpsdance.htm

    1. V/M
    2. D/W
    3. P/B
    4. W/P
    5. C/L
    Last edited by wallylutz; 10-30-2011 at 04:04 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    No disrespect towards Finlandia Trophy and the Finnish people intended, that was a B competition whose only difference vs. summer competition in North America such as Liberty and Thronhill is that it is ISU sanctioned. In other words, it's only been seen by a very limited audience. That is why in my earlier remark, I was very careful to state "the first time in the GP Series". GP Series are widely broadcasted in Europe and Asia such as Eurosport in multiple countries - this is what will enable a larger audience to formulate an opinion.
    Its still a competition. Does not matter the audience size. D/W free dance will go down as the greatest and most difficult in the history of the sport. I do not understand why some people just can't let go of their pride and admit it. Some posters already have. It's not so difficult to do

    it's an honor to witness such a great moment in skating history that D/W is creating. there have been so few of them over the past few years. Not since the days of kwan has skating been this good. And who ever would have thought it would be coming from ice dancing

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackswanphoto View Post
    D/W free dance will go down as the greatest and most difficult in the history of the sport. I do not understand why some people just can't let go of their pride and admit it. Some posters already have. It's not so difficult to do

    it's an honor to witness such a great moment in skating history that D/W is creating. there have been so few of them over the past few years. Not since the days of kwan has skating been this good. And who ever would have thought it would be coming from ice dancing
    Um....a lot of what you said here is opinion. And people are entitled to their own opinions.

  8. #83
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    jcoates, for me it comes down to several things.

    a) I've never seen D/W turn up as ready as they have at SA. You mention refining the program, but the judges are already giving them nines and tens. They can't score elevens. Admittedly, I suspect D/W are closer to their ceiling than V/M are, and that's part of it.

    b) Already, people are already suggesting that the only way V/M can win is through cheating, so I hope you take as much issue with that as with the mildly dismissive comments you called out.

    c) Sure, I'll admit it - my reticence about D/W's dance aside, it's clear they haven't rested on their laurels. They've improved much about posture, movement (more clear in the SD imo) and their attack, of course, is legendary.

  9. #84
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    Finally saw Virtue/Moir's free dance for the first time. And despite them being my fave ice dancers, I am not feeling this ish. It's treacly and trite, no depth of emotion or sincerity, no sense of adventure or excitement. It's a far cry from Mahler or Pink Floyd, or even the attempt at samba in the FD last season. The whole concept is basically comfort food, something familiar, unchallenging and inoffensive, and with so little substance it's more of a snack than a meal.

  10. #85
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    You know, I have not been on Golden Skate for all that long. But it has turned out to be a wonderful place to get up to date information or links for programs in the beginning of the season and during competitions and such. But I find it quite disheartening to see that many of the comments remind me of ridiculous debates that are all over youtube these days comparing every female singer to Lady Gaga, or to I don't know, Justin Bieber or something. It all seems so childish. When it comes down to it, both Tessa and Scott, and Meryl and Charlie are changing ice dance as it has been known. They are both amazing teams, with great technical ability and artistic ability. Skaters like that only come around once in a while. We should all be grateful that there are 2 teams like them around at the same time so that they all push each other to elevate the sport. Some people prefer one team, others prefer the other. To proclaim outlandish things just to elevate one of the teams is extremely immature and off-putting to the point that I may need to find another place to get my info and links.

    Now that I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for the links. I loved Tessa & Scott's FD. Not my favourite of theirs, but can't get much better than that. I feel the same way about Meryl and Charlie's from last week. Can't wait to see who lays it down on the night at the GPF.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    jcoates, for me it comes down to several things.

    a) I've never seen D/W turn up as ready as they have at SA. You mention refining the program, but the judges are already giving them nines and tens. They can't score elevens. Admittedly, I suspect D/W are closer to their ceiling than V/M are, and that's part of it.

    b) Already, people are already suggesting that the only way V/M can win is through cheating, so I hope you take as much issue with that as with the mildly dismissive comments you called out.

    c) Sure, I'll admit it - my reticence about D/W's dance aside, it's clear they haven't rested on their laurels. They've improved much about posture, movement (more clear in the SD imo) and their attack, of course, is legendary.
    a) They can certainly refine some minor unison issues in the SD beyond their twizzles. Of course the Rhumba sections can go up a level as can the Nt Cir steps. Of course, I expect V/M to do the same. In the end both teams can dial up better latin interpretation in sections of their dance. I feel at this point Charlie and Meryl are more even in their latin movement together than Tessa and Scott. By that I mean Meryl and Tessa are both fairly natural in their hip and shoulder movement (women usually pick those moves up faster anyway) while Charlie appears to have a bit better movement and looseness in his hips and shoulders than Scott. Their hip movement is also better distributed throughout the dance then V/M at this point IMO. That can change over time, I know.

    I admit there is less room for improvement with the FD, at least in the case of PCS. But frankly, there is not much room for V/M in that regard either. Both teams are coming awfully close to reaching the current scoring ceilings presently available, particularly for PCS. Once they perfect their step sequences, they will be pushing the tech limits as well.
    b) I certainly agree with you on that point. As I'm sure you remember, accusations of cheating if a victory doesn't match one's preferred path to achieving it are major pet peeves of mine. It's frankly a lazy form of argument that too many people rely on when they can't explain or accept another point of view. V/M may well win GPF or Worlds this year, and I have little doubt that if they do, they will deserve it. They are brilliant skaters, technicians and artists. My only point is that they should not be give the benefit of the doubt by default over D/W in the current landscape. They are probably as totally equal head to head as they have ever been during their careers.
    c) I think you and I are very often mirror images of each other in our ice dance preferences. You prefer V/M consistently, while I favor D/W. Yet we both greatly respect and often enjoy both teams.

  12. #87
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes it's true-

    The D/W and V/M debates remind me of other debates about what's better:


    Red Sox Yankees

    T & D K&P
    not to mention

    Great Taste Less Filling.

  13. #88
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    My take on things is that V/M and D/W, from my perspective are still pretty much even at this point. They are practically tied as far as overall score and it's not surprising that V/M did better in the SD (V/M tend to do better in the compulsory parts, I'd say) and that D/W is ahead in the FD (which as jcoates mention D/W beat V/M in this segment in the last three years). So really I would not to gamble on either team.

    I think the more interesting story here is who will fight for bronze come Worlds. C/L had a strong showing here and so did W/P. (And for that matter C/B did well in the FS as well) I probably would've had the Italians ahead, but that's neither here nor there. I was impressed with P/B in Skate America. I think those three will give a run for anyone's money to get on that podium if they continue to progress.

  14. #89
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    Yankees are devils. That you compared D/W or V/M to them is an affront to my very soul.

    ..... Wait, do they play soccer or tennis?

  15. #90
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    Love V&M, but hate Funny Face. I don't think they can beat D/W with this program.

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