PJ Kwong's All-Time Top 10 Ladies

gkelly · Nov 4, 2011

Well, she does say "CBCSports.ca challenged me to come up with a list of who I'd choose to skate in a fantasy competition between the 10 best of all time in each of the four disciplines.

To make it even tougher, I've ranked the skaters in order of how they'd finish in this magical event if I were the sole judge."

So from that point of view it can be a purely personal list of who she personally would want to see skate against each other and we don't have to take it as some kind of universal list.

But it is interesting how much our perceptions of skating history are influenced by the media through which we experienced or learned about it after the fact.

KKonas · Nov 4, 2011

Olympia said:
The American ignorance about Canadian women is interesting to me, though. My skating knowledge goes back to about the mid-1970s, with sparks from earlier skaters (mainly Fleming and Lynn), and I know absolutely nothing about Petra Burka except for her name, and I've also never seen Magnussen skate. I should hunt them up on YouTube. Was Karen Magnussen really a greater artistic skater than Janet Lynn? I know that several Japanese skaters revere Janet Lynn, but I've never heard of Magnussen's having any influence outside of Canada. I'm not arguing, just asking for more information.

Magnussen won Olympic silver in 1972 and world silver that same year and Janet Lynn won Olympic and world bronze. Magnussen also won the world title in 1973 and Lynn won silver. As to whether Magnussen was more artistic than Lynn, that's questionable.

Mathman · Nov 4, 2011

I think Dragonlady's and GKelly's view is the right one. These are the skater's that P.J. Kwong most admired personally.

It is hard to think of any criterion for "all-time best" that everyone would agree on. If it is "influence on the sport" then no modern skater would have a chance against the pioneers.

1. Madge Sayers. By winning the silver medal at the 1902 Men's Worlds Championship she established the principle that competitive figure skating is a sport for women, too.

2. Sonia Henie. Brought figure skating to Holiwood, transforming it from an obscure Teutonic recreational pastime to a big whoop on the world stage.

For the men, there would be no rival to Jackson Haines.

What about total body of work? Each skater submits tapes of her ten greatest performances to be juried. Well, that eliminates the old-timers (no tapes), and it also lets out the middle-timers, who competed only twice a year and whose careers lasted only from age 16 up until the next Olympics, and it disqualifies the one-day wonders as well. Could anyone beat Michelle Kwan by this standard?

gkelly · Nov 4, 2011

Mathman said:
What about total body of work? Each skater submits tapes of her ten greatest performances to be juried. Well, that eliminates the old-timers, and it also lets out the middle-timers, who competed only twice a year and whose careers lasted only from age 16 up until the next Olympics, and it disqualifies the one-day wonders as well. Could anyone beat Michelle Kwan by this standard?

Depends who's doing the voting and what their standards are.

If you took a vote among a large number of US fans now or in the near future, I think Kwan would be the favorite. Restrict your voting pool to Japanese fans, for example, and you might get a different result.

Dragonlady · Nov 4, 2011

KKonas said:
Magnussen won Olympic silver in 1972 and world silver that same year and Janet Lynn won Olympic and world bronze. Magnussen also won the world title in 1973 and Lynn won silver. As to whether Magnussen was more artistic than Lynn, that's questionable.

Magnussen was more athletic than artistic.

I also note that the title of the list is "P.J. Kwong's Top 10 List". She doesn't pretend to be doing THE definitive list of all time. I think it would be interesting to see who we would put on our own personal lists. Mine would not include Katt Witt. I thought she was technically weak and won on intimidation and by flirting with the judges. YMMV.

seniorita · Nov 4, 2011

Mathman said:
1. Madge Sayers. By winning the silver medal at the 1902 Men's Worlds Championship she established the principle that competitive figure skating is a sport for women, too.

Did she pretend to be a guy? I dont know the story.

gkelly · Nov 4, 2011

No, as of 1902 it was just "The World Figure Skating Championships."

After Syers entered and took silver, the ISU changed to rules to restrict the championships to men and added as separate championship for ladies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madge_Syers

dorispulaski · Nov 4, 2011

To Mathman's great ladies of the past, I'd add Tenley Albright and Cecilia Colledge.

blue dog · Nov 4, 2011

dorispulaski said:
To Mathman's great ladies of the past, I'd add Tenley Albright and Cecilia Colledge.

I'll raise you a Maribel Vinson!

Mathman · Nov 4, 2011

gkelly said:
Restrict your voting pool to Japanese fans, for example, and you might get a different result.

I would agree with those fans that Mao Asada could put together a killer collection.

KKonas · Nov 4, 2011

Well Carol Heiss was no slouch with 5 world titles (1956-60) and Olympic gold in 1960. Olympic silver in 1956. She would make my list.

blue dog · Nov 4, 2011

KKonas said:
Well Carol Heiss was no slouch with 5 world titles (1956-60) and Olympic gold in 1960. Olympic silver in 1956. She would make my list.

Not to mention, she was the first lady to the double axel.

Jammers · Nov 4, 2011

No Janet Lynn or Carol Heiss or even Tara? Looking at the list you would think it was Canada that has won 7 OGM's in Ladies not the US. Elizabeth Manley and Sarah Hughes? Two one hit wonders made the list.

KKonas · Nov 4, 2011

seniorita said:
Did she pretend to be a guy? I dont know the story.

Madge Syers entered the 1902 Worlds, which had no ladies event, but no rules against women entering the men's event and finished second to Ulrich Salchow. In 1903 the ISU Congress barred women from competing against men, but in 1906, it created a separate Ladies event, called "Ladies Championship of the ISU," which Syers won for three consecutive years. She was inducted into the World Figure Skating Hall of Fame in 1981. She died of heart failure in 1917 at the age of 35.

KKonas · Nov 4, 2011

Cecilia Colledge is credited as the inventor of the layback and camel spins. She was also the first woman to land a double jump (Salchow) in competition at the 1936 European Championships. She won three European titles (1937-39) and won the Olympic silver medal in 1936. She won the World title in 1937. Although she represented Great Britain, she lived and taught skating for many years in Boston and was inducted into the World Figure Skating Hall of Fame in 1980.

prettykeys · Nov 4, 2011

Buttercup said:
Kwan >>> Hughes.

Yes. PJ's list is weird, although she's entitled to her list as anyone else is entitled to theirs.

I'm not very familiar with most skaters who were known before I was born, but I really do like Cecilia Colledge. (Just commenting on her, not necessarily saying she's in my Top 10)

russell30 · Nov 5, 2011

Maybe:

1) YuNa Kim
2) Sonja Henie
3) Michelle Kwan
4) Katarina Witt
5) Irina Slutskaya
6) Shizuka Arakawa
7) Midori Ito
8) Miki Ando
9) Mao Asada
10) Tara Lipinski

(I know most of them are modern day)

sorcerer · Nov 5, 2011

I think we should devide the list into two:
1. The order within those who made the World Hall of Fame:
http://www.worldskatingmuseum.org/WHOF.htm
2. List of current skaters who should be in th WHOF in near future.

pangtongfan · Nov 5, 2011

Hughes higher than Kwan, Lynn, Ito, Henjie, Yamaguchi, Fleming, Slutskaya and others. Hilarious. Even Lipinski and Bauil are much better than Hughes.

pangtongfan · Nov 5, 2011

My list:

1. Michelle Kwan
2. Midori Ito
3. Janet Lynn
4. Katarina Witt
5. Sonja Henjie
6. Yu Na Kim
7. Kristi Yamaguchi
8. Irina Slutskaya
9. Dorothy Hamill
10. Peggy Fleming

PJ Kwong's All-Time Top 10 Ladies

gkelly

KKonas

Mathman

gkelly

Dragonlady

seniorita

gkelly

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!

Mathman

KKonas

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!

Jammers

KKonas

KKonas

prettykeys

russell30

sorcerer

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

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