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Thread: Ladies - Long Program

  1. #136
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I just don't believe that
    - she is in a position to comment at all, let alone negatively on a full grown ladies skills when she has not experienced competition at this stage herself.
    - She can compare competing or skating under the 6.0 system as opposed to the IJS. I just checked her lp from nationals when she was 15. She had a glaring flutz and the second loop on her lp/lp was between a half and quarter cheat. That was with low level spins and footwork.

    There are few ladies in the world who are completing consistently clean 3/3s (not including toe) without downgrades or
    edge calls in the program under pressure. Kudos to those that have hung in there until adulthood. Mirai is still battling growth issues IMO. She appears to have a more womanly body this year and is likely having to make adjustments accordingly. I hope she hangs in there as she is doing great for an 18 year old. Mao Asada is arguably the most talented skater in the last 20 years and has had to make adjustments after growing.

    I just found Taras comments to be indicative of her experience or lack there of while at the same time insulting. Maybe she would be better off working the Jr Grand Prixs.
    Last edited by havefun; 11-07-2011 at 08:14 PM.

  2. #137
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    Tara criticizes the US ladies lack of technical content, but what about Carolina Kostner? She has fashioned success out of failure by stripping the hard stuff out of her programs. She's been getting huge scores ever since. Having a 3/3 doesn't guarantee success, as Sotnikova can attest. Taking risks by attempting harder jumps / jump combinations may not result in a higher placement if the technical panel finds the rotation or jump entry deficient.

    CoP is not Tara's 6.0 system, where her egregious flutz was ignored, her 3lo/3lo wasn't subjected to rotational validation, and her minuscule 2a didn't get -GOE for lack of height. She needs to stop referring to her long-ago prowess and take the time to understand that there's no way to guarantee that she would have done as well under the current system as she did under 6.0. Tara should stop talking about herself and concentrate on the skaters about whom she's supposed to be commenting.

  3. #138
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Out of interest I reviewed her Olympic lp
    Under IJS.
    2 lutz edge calls
    2nd 3lp on combo ur if not dg'd
    3sal ur on sequence
    Layback level 1
    Flying camel level 1. No fly .....stopover
    1 level 2 and 1 level 3 spin
    No transitions or footwork.

    That's 5 triples ....2 with edge calls. Hmmmm.....around 80 to 90 points at best for that program.
    Last edited by havefun; 11-07-2011 at 09:27 PM.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    Out of interest I reviewed her Olympic lp
    Under IJS.
    2 lutz edge calls
    2nd 3lp on combo ur if not dg'd
    3sal ur on sequence
    Layback level 1
    Flying camel level 1. No fly .....stopover
    1 level 2 and 1 level 3 spin
    No transitions or footwork.

    That's 5 triples ....2 with edge calls. Hmmmm.....around 80 to 90 points at best for that program.
    You can't call 6.0 programs under COP. It just doesn't work. They didn't have to gain levels on spins/step sequences, and underrotations/edge calls were not as heavily penalized. You think Hughes, Lipinski, Baiul (just picking the 90s ones, I think Yamaguchi probably still would've won '92) would've scored well for their LPs? No.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    Out of interest I reviewed her Olympic lp
    Under IJS.
    2 lutz edge calls
    2nd 3lp on combo ur if not dg'd
    3sal ur on sequence
    Layback level 1
    Flying camel level 1. No fly .....stopover
    1 level 2 and 1 level 3 spin
    No transitions or footwork.

    That's 5 triples ....2 with edge calls. Hmmmm.....around 80 to 90 points at best for that program.
    Fair enough on the jumps, but I think it's unfair to judge spins and footwork under 6.0 by COP standards, since skaters under 6.0 didn't have to do pointless things to gain levels and no technical credit was given for footwork.

  6. #141
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Case in point. It was very poor judgement of her to compare skating now to 20 years ago.

  7. #142
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    CoP is not Tara's 6.0 system, where her egregious flutz was ignored, her 3lo/3lo wasn't subjected to rotational validation, and her minuscule 2a didn't get -GOE for lack of height. She needs to stop referring to her long-ago prowess and take the time to understand that there's no way to guarantee that she would have done as well under the current system as she did under 6.0. Tara should stop talking about herself and concentrate on the skaters about whom she's supposed to be commenting.
    I totally agree with this. It's unfortunate that the US has no commentator who is truly knowledgeable about the COP judging system in the singles and pairs skating disciplines. The one commentator who I do think does an excellent job is Judy Blumberg, ice dance commentator, who just so happens to be an ISU technical specialist. She does a wonderful job of telling the viewing audience what the judges are looking for during the routines. Maybe Alissa Czisny could step into the commentary booth when she is done competing and actually give an experienced and useful account of what it is like to actually be a COP competitor.

  8. #143
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    There are some US ex singles competitors who are technical specialists.

    Todd Sand competed a long time ago in singles for Denmark (1981 or so), and in pairs with Jenny Meno for the US. He is a pairs tech specialist. They should consider using him if his voice is at all suitable.

    Todd was the tech specialist at JGP Brisbane.

    David Santee is a tech specialist in men's & ladies singles, and was the tech specialist at CoC.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-08-2011 at 10:56 AM.

  9. #144
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Johnny Weir suffered the pains of adapting to IJS. He did a great job commentating worlds last year and he has watched first hand, skaters develop from girls to ladies. He is a confident speaker and has a large following. Another one is Lisa Ervin. She is a Tech Specialist at this time and skated through some difficult growth periods.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    I just don't believe that
    - she is in a position to comment at all, let alone negatively on a full grown ladies skills when she has not experienced competition at this stage herself.
    - She can compare competing or skating under the 6.0 system as opposed to the IJS. I just checked her lp from nationals when she was 15. She had a glaring flutz and the second loop on her lp/lp was between a half and quarter cheat. That was with low level spins and footwork.

    There are few ladies in the world who are completing consistently clean 3/3s (not including toe) without downgrades or
    edge calls in the program under pressure. Kudos to those that have hung in there until adulthood. Mirai is still battling growth issues IMO. She appears to have a more womanly body this year and is likely having to make adjustments accordingly. I hope she hangs in there as she is doing great for an 18 year old. Mao Asada is arguably the most talented skater in the last 20 years and has had to make adjustments after growing.

    I just found Taras comments to be indicative of her experience or lack there of while at the same time insulting. Maybe she would be better off working the Jr Grand Prixs.
    I don't think it's a growth issue with Mirai but to many trips to the refrigerator. I know that sounds harsh but even she admits that's she's lazy sometimes and i don't think she is in very good shape. Just look at how slow she has skated this year. Her spins are even slow. What has happened to them? They used to be the best part of her skating. Her coaches have even said they have to get on her to train harder sometimes. I wonder how much she really wants to be a champion.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I don't think it's a growth issue with Mirai but to many trips to the refrigerator. I know that sounds harsh but even she admits that's she's lazy sometimes and i don't think she is in very good shape. Just look at how slow she has skated this year. Her spins are even slow. What has happened to them? They used to be the best part of her skating. Her coaches have even said they have to get on her to train harder sometimes. I wonder how much she really wants to be a champion.
    Yes, maybe she needs more concentration on training. On the other hand her body type has changed a lot, she is no more a tiny girl who looks light as a feather. She looks more like an amazon now.

  12. #147
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    One of the British Eurosport guys went to Lake Arrowhead this summer and watched a few of Mirai's practice sessions, and said she worked really hard. That's a good sign, at least. He says it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA6SE...ailpage#t=226s

  13. #148
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    It was probably Chris Howrath - he takes some of his skaters there over the summer from our rink in IL.

  14. #149
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    Is it me or does Mirai seem to skate a lot faster in her exhibitions? Just look at her spins they are so much faster then in competitions.

  15. #150
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    Spins take a lot of energy, and after 6 or 7 jumps, the energy just isn't there in the FS. Exhibitions are a lot easier and less taxing than competitive programs. Spins become a highlight in exhibition programs, rather than jumps. Exhibition programs have fewer jumps, and rarely the harder jumps; and those jumps aren't scrutinized for rotation so the skater can pay more attention to performance rather than technical execution.

    BTW, I thought Mirai's blue FS costume was a poor choice. The excess chiffon fabric around the waist made her look short-waisted and thick in the middle, which gave her a stocky look. She wasn't in the best of shape, but she would have looked a lot slimmer in a more streamlined dress. I am NOT saying she's fat, but I do think she probably is not at her optimum weight at this point in the season.
    Last edited by chuckm; 11-08-2011 at 10:16 PM.

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