Ladies - Long Program | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Long Program

skateflower

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
It was outrageous that the technical specialist did not downgrade Adelina's severelly cheated 3f+3loop<<<. She prerotated 360 degrees on the ice for the 3loop take off(5'50).

http://www.youtube.com/user/frida340#p/u/4/UKF5Lbz9Kec

Poor Mao and Miki. Their 3+3loop got downgraded all the time but Adelina's was worse in rotations.

Some posters proclaimed this girl could easily win world championships if she's age eligible. I don't think so.
 
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Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
:confused::scratch: I really dont see it, but at least I d prefer the non forced artistry of Mao to be copied.
Carolina s style doesnt look similar to Alisa btw.

Of course, Alissa and Carolina have different approaches and different styles. To me, when Alissa metamorphosed like a butterfly with her lovely, mesmerizing programs last season, that became the beacon. Even Miki Ando and coach took note and dumped Miki's original more edgy sp for a more lyrical style (which doesn't exactly suit Miki, but she prevailed overall at Worlds). For quite awhile, Carolina has been struggling with jump landings, consistency, and costumes (too often wearing too short numbers to show-off her legs, but coming off a bit too slutty -- the ones she's finally wearing now are much more complementary).

I think Carolina working with Frank is one of the first things that helped her adjust her approach and overall packaging, because she and her programs looked transformed during her brief time with Carroll, and I was happy for her. Carolina though wasn't happy in America, and she decided to return to a more comfortable setting with her former coach, which I think has been great for her. The key is that Carolina carried home with her a better, more refined approach to her skating, which is working beautifully. I'm not saying that Carolina is especially trying to do exactly what Alissa does. However, I am saying that Alissa's lyrical skating is inspirational. IMHO, Carolina has been inspired to express more lyricism without losing any of the edginess and angularity that defines her style. She has moderated her rush-rush speed, however, which I think has helped her concentration, and thus she is not botching as many of her jumps or falling completely apart. Not unlike Alissa, Carolina is still sometimes messy on the jump landings. Both Carolina and Alissa still have room for much improvement. I like them both, but I tend to enjoy Alissa more. That is not to say I don't root for Carolina -- I have and I do. I just do not like the sense of Carolina having the inside track politically, which even if many don't agree, has certainly been a factor in Carolina's career. At first she was being set-up for the 2006 Olympics (being awarded bronze prematurely IMO at 2005 Worlds). Carolina had a very hard time living up to the hype and the pressure, and she has struggled off and on since then. Perhaps this will be her season to shine more consistently. But I don't think she is high and above Alissa in any way. Speed is over-rated, and like I said, Carolina has modulated her speed for more effective presentation and artistic expression. We should all root for a good and uplifting rivalry.

ETA: I always enjoy hearing your take, museks8r. I never said that Alissa was the first or only lyrical skater on the planet. What I did and do say is that Alissa's skating has been inspirational to many of her peers, IMO, including Carolina. That doesn't mean I think their styles are the same. When we are inspired by something we see or feel, I believe that our senses and awareness are heightened to other possibilities within ourselves. This goes for skating and for any creative endeavor. As far as your other points, museks8r, sure I believe Mirai has not fully developed in her range because she has been struggling with her jump technique and her volatile emotions. You may love Carolina's choreography more than any of her competitors this season, but I don't think her choreography is necessarily superior to Alissa's. I do agree that Carolina has stronger jumps, but like Alissa, Carolina has lacked consistency in that area, for different reasons. As far as interpretive range, Carolina has nothing on Alissa. It seems to me there is an underlying sense in the critiques of "Oh Alissa and her spins, that's the only thing that sets her apart ... it's always heart in throat watching her jump." Well, I disagree that spins are the only thing Alissa has going for her, and I think Alissa has shown a great deal of toughness, spirit and backbone to get to where she is today. Both Alissa and Carolina sometimes struggle with their jumps, and they both have that "heart-in-throat" quality about their skating (in more ways than one). :)

2nd ETA: Definitely I agree with Carolina's win here, but she wasn't clean, and I do think her scores were a bit inflated, but nothing to get too excited about. At least Mirai is showing signs of life and improvement from her SC outing, and that's saying something.
 
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skfan

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Carolina's artistic style isn't anything like Alissa's. For one thing, Carolina's artistry consists of more than "HHHHHNNNNGGGHHHH" during spins elements and "worry face" during non-spin elements.

i couldn't agree more.

I really like Carolina's programs this season. Even though I'm rooting for Mao to win worlds, I'm rooting for Carolina to skate the Mozart long perfectly at least once this season. By that I don't mean just perfect jumps-- the little steps could be in time with the music, the spins and jumps shouldn't finish late so that the choreography lags behind the music... Does that 3-sal need to be moved? It always feels like there's not enough time after that jump before the music's tempo picks up. And she could express spontaneity and joy in the fast tempo section (SKAM) rather than tightness and hesitation (CoChina).

One other thing-- can someone with better eyes tell me why Carolina's spins were level 4 this week but only level 1 last week in the long program? Their centering, speed, etc don't seem all that much better than the last time around. I thought this skate was not as good as SKAM, yet she scored higher. What does this different panel see that the SKAM panel didn't (aside from the de-facto crowned 2012 US Champion in the line-up)?

Kanako's long program dress is beautiful. Her skating has certain unrefined aspects that don't appeal to me, but she's stretching her artistic boundaries beyond perky and cute, and that's good to see.

I thought Adelina was the most impressive lady in the long, jump issues and all. She attacked, she connected with her music, she didn't look scared or somehow mentally absent, although she appeared to run out of gas midway through the program. That spin where she grabs her shin/knee is just unaesthetic, but those nicely extended jump landings with the pointed toes... how I've missed those :)

As for the other ladies... aside from the axel issues, Gao still skates with the same lack of refinement she did when she debuted on the senior US scene. The 'YNK-lite' packaging does her no favors, only highlighting what she lacks that YNK could bring to powerful tango music. Good to see the bangs tamed, though. Maybe Gao and Mirai Nagasu should switch up coaches & choreographers? Or maybe not, because Mirai turned it up a notch at this competition :)

I don't want to jinx Mao, but if Mao is anywhere near her best... *crosses fingers*
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Congtats Mirai on the silver medal. But I do not get it. Am I the only one who felt that she skated like she was just taking care of elements one by one, just because she got to do it?I did not feel any emotions from her. Miss previous Mirai with a lot of sparks.

Finally got to watch the ladies FS and I have to agree Mirai's sparkle was missing. Mirai was all business and got through her elements
one by one without letting her emotions get in the way and it worked for her, she got great scores in her Short and the Long and medaled. Mission accomplished.
I think she was determined to skate her programs clean and this hindered her somewhat in the interpretation of the music. Spartacus is such a great piece of music that I hope
as the season progresses Miria can incorporate the sparkle back into her programs. That said I thought she skated great and deserved the Silver.

Caro what more can I say, she is a goddess on the ice and I don't think she was over-scored at all. Loved both of her programs.
 

kyla2

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Carolina-OverScored

Carolina has speed and very little else. While she has improved from 2 years ago, she still has issues with her jumps and the judges continue to give her gifts. It is very clear that most of her landings are not particularly stable and she attempts to cover them up with steps out of the jump. Her programs are always flawed. She is consistently overscored and her competiton, underscored. It is no surprise that figure skating has become a fringe sport, with no mainstream t.v. coverage, with judging like this. The general public simply will never understand the complexity of the scoring system and furthermore, why should they bother? It makes little sense. For example, a slightly underrotated jump, which does not impact the flow of the program, is more of a negative than a wonky landing that impacts the flow and beauty of the presentation? Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. This sport continues to go the way of the dinosaur and become less and less relevant.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Carolina has speed and very little else. While she has improved from 2 years ago, she still has issues with her jumps and the judges continue to give her gifts. It is very clear that most of her landings are not particularly stable and she attempts to cover them up with steps out of the jump. Her programs are always flawed. She is consistently overscored and her competiton, underscored. It is no surprise that figure skating has become a fringe sport, with no mainstream t.v. coverage, with judging like this. The general public simply will never understand the complexity of the scoring system and furthermore, why should they bother? It makes little sense. For example, a slightly underrotated jump, which does not impact the flow of the program, is more of a negative than a wonky landing that impacts the flow and beauty of the presentation? Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. This sport continues to go the way of the dinosaur and become less and less relevant.

Well, thank heavens, not everyone agrees with you. The judges got this one right; Caro definitely deserved to finish over Mirai by a lot! :yes:
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Well, thank heavens, not everyone agrees with you. The judges got this one right; Caro definitely deserved to finish over Mirai by a lot! :yes:
When I watched Carolina's FS right after Mirai's I thought that she was flying. The speed, the flow and power were obvious after slow and lifeless Mirai (IMO, she needs to get rid of that LP or at least to make some changes). Carolina also feels the music and performs when Mirai hardly even payed attention to it. I think the difference in their PCS is fair because it was two different levels. Wheither Carolina deserved 120 points for that is another story (but, IMO, Mirai didn't deserve 112 either). I agree with the results.

Adelina is a beautiful skater and I'm sure she will show what she can do very soon. Her coach said Adelina was off ice for a mounth due to injury, so it's understandable she is not in her best shape yet. Fingers crossed, she still has a chance to qualify to the final
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
It was outrageous that the technical specialist did not downgrade Adelina's severelly cheated 3f+3loop<<<. She prerotated 360 degrees on the ice for the 3loop take off(5'50).

http://www.youtube.com/user/frida340#p/u/4/UKF5Lbz9Kec

Poor Mao and Miki. Their 3+3loop got downgraded all the time but Adelina's was worse in rotations.

Some posters proclaimed this girl could easily win world championships if she's age eligible. I don't think so.

I think her 3d place says a lot..Her score isn't near Caro or Mirai.Why are you so bitter?
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Recap of Final result and videos:-

1. Carolina Kostner - ITA - 182.14

Short Program

Free Skate

2. Mirai Nagasu - USA - 173.22

Short Program

Free Skate

3. Adelina Sotnikova - RUS - 159.95

Short Program & Free Skate

4. Kexin Zhang - CHN - 153.32

Short Program

Free Skate

5. Christina Gao - USA - 152.48

Short Program

Free Skate

6. Kanako Murakami - JPN - 150.20

Short Program

Free Skate

7. Ksenia Makarova - RUS - 143.47

Short Program

Free Skate

8. Bingwa Geng - CHN - 142.09

Short Program

Free Skate

9. Valentina Marchei - ITA - 133.86

Short Program

Free Skate

10. Qiuying Zhu - CHN - 108.57

Free Skate
 
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ILoveFigures

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
It is no surprise that figure skating has become a fringe sport, with no mainstream t.v. coverage, with judging like this.

??? A fringe sport? With no mainstream TV coverage? LMAO! I guess you must be talking about the US then.. There is mainstream TV coverage in Canada, Russia, Japan, Korea, and now eurosport is showing the whole grand prix series all over Europe. Give me a grip!

And reagrding the judging; well, it was FAIR! If anyone was overscored in this event it was Nagasu with such a sloppy skate.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
My speculated explanation for why Kostner scored so high at this event despite her mistakes was because judges saw what she scored at Skate America and decided that she should have gotten more points.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I'm not the best judge of underrotation but it looked to me like Adelina landed on the same place where she took off, so how would that be underrotated.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I'm getting the feeling that Mirai just can't land her jumps without it taking any energy she has right out of her program. She's so intent on landing them that she doesn't skate to the music and can't seem to perform her program and still do her jumps. It's either one or the other with Mirai she can't seem to do both so she skates lifeless sometimes.
 

cjsk8fan

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
??? A fringe sport? With no mainstream TV coverage? LMAO! I guess you must be talking about the US then.. There is mainstream TV coverage in Canada, Russia, Japan, Korea, and now eurosport is showing the whole grand prix series all over Europe. Give me a grip!

And reagrding the judging; well, it was FAIR! If anyone was overscored in this event it was Nagasu with such a sloppy skate.
I didn't think her skate was sloppy at all, she might have skated conservatively, but sloppy, IMO, no. Mirai has many lovely aspects to her skating and I hope she continues to grow through the season.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I'm not the best judge of underrotation but it looked to me like Adelina landed on the same place where she took off, so how would that be underrotated.

It's not exactly a good thing to land on the same place where you took off, as it shows a lack of ice coverage on the jump.
 

ILoveFigures

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
My speculated explanation for why Kostner scored so high at this event despite her mistakes was because judges saw what she scored at Skate America and decided that she should have gotten more points.

Not really! The reason Kostner scored better here then at SA is because of her spins. At SA 2 of her spins were level 1, here all of them were level 4. That is close to 5-6 points more on base value alone, and here she probably got better GOE because the execution was better.

Her score is a reflection of her improvement, not some judging deal where they sat down and said; listen, lets give her more points here because at SA she was underscored.

I didn't think her skate was sloppy at all, she might have skated conservatively, but sloppy, IMO, no. Mirai has many lovely aspects to her skating and I hope she continues to grow through the season.

Sloppy might have been a bad choice of word, pardon that. But the thing is Mirai skated slow, tentative, arms and upperbody hanging and I must say Spartacus does not give her any benefits. This is a powerful piece of music and what Mirai clearly is not demonstarting is powerful skating. She just skates from element to element, and I must say she doesn't seem well trained. Fine, she landed most of her jumps, but many of them were shaky, small and underrotated. Watching Kostner vs Nagasu live will really give you a chance to see the huge difference and all the work Mirai needs to get done if she wants to be the best in the world.

It's not exactly a good thing to land on the same place where you took off, as it shows a lack of ice coverage on the jump.
Loop is not exactly the easiest jump to get good ice coverage on as the second jump in a combo, especially when it's triple.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I'm not the best judge of underrotation but it looked to me like Adelina landed on the same place where she took off, so how would that be underrotated.

Where a skater lands has nothing to do with the number of rotations in the air. She could have done a single, double, triple, or sat down on the same spot she took off. If anything, landing on the same spot means less distance and likely less time to complete more rotations, unless she jumps straight up incredibly high to have the air time for multiple rotations. That would have been quite a sight.
 
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