Men - Long Program

FTnoona · Nov 5, 2011

Aww... Yuzuru was doing so well in the beginning half of the program, but at least he didn't look as tired as he did at 4CC last year. I felt he should have gone the safer route after the landing of the 2nd 3A and done a 2T instead. It didn't look like he had enough speed to put the 3T in. So sad he was off podium by like 0.24

Seems like Hanyu isn't ready for the world team yet this year or until he at least can get better stamina. Impressed by Song's quads. It seems out of the three that were on the 2010 jr. world podium he wasn't doing as well last year. Here are some videos of the men's fs. Sorry if someone already posted them.

Hanyu FS
http://www.youtube.com/user/frida340#p/u/4/0A7XW9AR4TE

Gachinski FS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5ciChueeX4&feature=channel_video_title

Abbott FS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=radyY9alArk&feature=channel_video_title

Oda FS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoTmS0fZl4g&feature=channel_video_title

Blades of Passion · Nov 5, 2011

wallylutz said:
Subjectively speaking, Hanyu's aesthetic presentation of himself left a lot to be desired, similar to Kevin Reynolds although not as messy as the latter. His upper movements came across as a little mechanical as opposed to reflecting the mood of the music. I noted his arms remained rigid and forceful even though the music soften up in the middle section and slowed down.

Are you blind? Must be.

Hanyu was easily the best here in musicality and his sensitivity to the soft parts of the music is sublime. He did not recover from the falls well at all and was clearly very disappointed in himself but the performance still had more magic to it than any other. He deserved to be 2nd in the Freeskate and to claim the Gold medal overall here.

Nan Song was very impressive! I thought he was a bit undermarked in the SP; he has better performance quality and basics than any other Chinese singles skater to date. The jumps he laid down in the LP were excellent and he deservedly won that segment. I would have given him the Silver medal overall here.

I don't like Jeremy Abbott's program (yet another case of meaningless transitions and footwork thrown all throughout a program that have little or nothing to do with them music) and I can't believe how boring all the American men are this year. Ugh. That said, his overall performance quality is still quite good and I think he did enough here to deserve the Bronze medal. He's very lucky at how much the other guys messed up, though, because he did not deliver the jumps here either.

Nobunari Oda's music is awful. This Umbrellas of Cherbourg mix makes no sense, the program is entirely forgettable, and he lacks connection to performance as usual. His jumping is still great of course, but that weird fall on the 3Flip takes him off the podium for me.

Not a good day at the office for Artur Gachinski. Too many jump mistakes and he didn't put nearly enough energy into this.

skatinginbc · Nov 5, 2011

FTnoona said:
I felt he should have gone the safer route after the landing of the 2nd 3A and done a 2T instead. It didn't look like he had enough speed to put the 3T in.

I thought so, too. I felt Hanyu would have skated clean if without that first fall. His quad seemed very consistent to me and I wonder why he didn't plan a second quad in his long program. I hope he would try something like this in the near future:
4T+3T
4T
3A + 3T
FSSp
3Lz
CiSt
3A
3F
3Lo+ 2T + 2T
CCoSp
3S
FCCoSp

Say, if he doubles every jump in the second half of the program due to his stamina issues, he could still wrap up big scores with a front-loaded program like that.

jettasian · Nov 5, 2011

Nan should have won.

chuckm · Nov 5, 2011

Nan Song was too far back pointwise in the SP to win, but his FS was wonderful. I am SO glad he medaled over Gachinski. IMO, Gachinski is a 6.0 skater---no transitions, just lots of posing and stroking---and he is WAY overscored in PCS. Much of the time, he looks as if he is channeling Plushenko, but without Plushy's rock-solid jumps.

Puchi · Nov 5, 2011

chuckm said:
Much of the time, he looks as if he is channeling Plushenko, but without Plushy's rock-solid jumps.

And without Plushenko's charisma either.

christinaskater · Nov 5, 2011

I agree, Gachinski is like imitating Plushenko's style which is the goal of Team Sochi

I agree he has very few transitions and gets top scores on it and the other PCS areas. I hope Mishin would develop him as Gachinski and not Plushenko because he looks like a pale imitation of the later.

Skating is a superstar sport. You have to establish your brand first before you get top marks. So Nan has to show his consistency to reap the top marks. Surely he deserved the gold and was under marked for both the SP and LP. He is amazing!

Yuzuru needs to build more upper body strength. He needs to buff up a little to make him look more mature and not boyish looking. The boyish image makes the judges hesitant to give top marks for artistry.

Jeremy is truly one of the best artist of this generation. Masterpiece program!

wallylutz · Nov 5, 2011

Blades of Passion said:
Are you blind? Must be.

Now that you mention it, I think I am blind indeed. But guess what, being disabled is a million times better than being fake and a Pasha Grishuck wannabe. :laugh:

Bluebonnet · Nov 5, 2011

Congratulations to Jeremy!

However, can I say that I don't really like his new LP? It's beautiful, yes. But it's like a workout music and movements for a ballet practice sesson. I agree with BoP on this one. Most of the time, I felt the movements were meaningless. A typical Yuka Sato skating

- so beautiful throughout yet nothing memorable. Good to see his PCS was so high. Hope he could hold on and do better technically next time.

Sad for Hanyu. He started strong and melted down on half way. Love his music!

Oda took himself out of the contention. Why didn't he do a quad? He had it and even did it in SP last year. I felt he was held up.

Wish Gachinski well next time. Don't really like his program.

Nan Song, what a guy! (Haven't had a chance to watch his LP yet.) He won LP but his PCS was about 20 points lower than his TES. :eek:

He has a lot catch up to do on the PCS department.

Mrs. P · Nov 5, 2011

Bluebonnet said:
Congratulations to Jeremy!

However, can I say that I don't really like his new LP? It's beautiful, yes. But it's like a workout music and movements for a ballet practice sesson. I agree with BoP on this one. Most of the time, I felt the movements were meaningless. A typical Yuka Sato skating - so beautiful throughout yet nothing memorable. Good to see his PCS was so high. Hope he could hold on and do better technically next time.

Sad for Hanyu. He started strong and melted down on half way. Love his music!

Oda took himself out of the contention. Why didn't he do a quad? He had it and even did it in SP last year. I felt he was held up.

Wish Gachinski well next time. Don't really like his program.

Nan Song, what a guy! (Haven't had a chance to watch his LP yet.) He won LP but his PCS was about 20 points lower than his TES. He has a lot catch up to do on the PCS department.

Someone mentioned earlier that Oda was injured this summer so is holding off on the quad for now. However, I don't quite agree he was held up -- he scored a TON of points for what he did on the ice. His 3A alone earned him 11.06 points (as it should his version is CRAZY amazing) and he had two other elements that earned him double-digits scores (3Z-3T and his 3A-2T-2L). He definitely did a lot more, technically, than almost everybody except Nan, Kevin and Richard and I felt he was docked appropriately for what he didn't do. And those higher PCS is well deserved, especially in skating skills.

ETA: Also I think in the quad-or-no quad debate, it's worth noting that the 3A still matters, especially if you have one as good as Oda's. The reason Nan Song was super amazing is that he did 2 quads AND 2 3A. Compare that to Kevin who also did 2 quads but fell apart on the 3A. Oda managed to score the equivalent of a quad toe jump by scoring super high GOE on both his Triple Axels.

Jeremy also has a solid 3A and that popped 3A, no doubt was to be a 3A-3T combo.

lavender · Nov 5, 2011

Wow I was watching Artur realizing he was skating to Red Violin and I was taken aback. It was just like he was just skating to nothing imo. It was like the music was just happened to be on. None of the movement to this music made sense. All I can think of is what he should be doing and thinking of Michelle's program which imo would have worked in any system.

His short was actually enjoyable and I was expecting something similar.

gmyers · Nov 5, 2011

chuckm said:
Nan Song was too far back pointwise in the SP to win, but his FS was wonderful. I am SO glad he medaled over Gachinski. IMO, Gachinski is a 6.0 skater---no transitions, just lots of posing and stroking---and he is WAY overscored in PCS. Much of the time, he looks as if he is channeling Plushenko, but without Plushy's rock-solid jumps.

He has transitions. I don't see how you can say he has none when some are blindingly obvious. This comes off as a rote statment of dislike for some skaters. "6.0" "no transitions" - not accurate.

gmyers · Nov 5, 2011

lavender said:
Wow I was watching Artur realizing he was skating to Red Violin and I was taken aback. It was just like he was just skating to nothing imo. It was like the music was just happened to be on. None of the movement to this music made sense. All I can think of is what he should be doing and thinking of Michelle's program which imo would have worked in any system.

His short was actually enjoyable and I was expecting something similar.

Most of the program was Dracula and Vampire and the clear influence of vampire moves was obvious.

yunafan1860 · Nov 5, 2011

Strangely, Jeremy's program is not convincing as it's rather bourgeouis.
Yuzuru is the most wonderful thing happened to men figure skating since Yagudin.

skateflower · Nov 5, 2011

Just watched a few videos.

Jeremy's free program is boring and his jumps are as shaky as usual. But he probably deserved the win here.
Oda's skating skills and the landed jumps are still excellent. But he has made no obvious progress in other areas.
Nan Song had a breakthrough. His jumps were outstanding and he's improving basic skating skills & presentation. He is still quite slow though. A long way to go if he wants to break into the top tier in the world. Definitely deserved the bronze medal.
Shame for Hanyu. He has everything except the stamina. He'll become world champion sooner rather than later.

Gachinski was vastly overscored, especailly in the PCS department. Poor basic skating skills, slow, very little ice coverage, typical 6.0 choreography to save energy for big jumps. How the hell did he get a bronze medal at world championships?

I also quite enjoy Kevin. It's almost like he no longer cares about how judges will score him. He's completely liberated. I think he's now shooting for record book, please audience and himself instead of judges. Maybe miracle will suddently strike him one day and he'll be crowned as world champion? It's possible with 3 quad jumps, 2 3axels... :laugh:

wallylutz · Nov 5, 2011

gmyers said:
Most of the program was Dracula and Vampire and the clear influence of vampire moves was obvious.

Really, he was Dracula? I thought he was a member of the Adam's family to be honest. It just goes to show he still has a long way to go to help the audience to actually understand what he was trying to portray.

Mrs. P · Nov 5, 2011

skateflower said:
Just watched a few videos.

Jeremy's free program is boring and his jumps are as shaky as usual. But he probably deserved the win here.
Oda's skating skills and the landed jumps are still excellent. But he has made no obvious progress in other areas.
Nan Song had a breakthrough. His jumps were outstanding and he's improving basic skating skills & presentation. He is still quite slow though. A long way to go if he wants to break into the top tier in the world. Definitely deserved the bronze medal.
Shame for Hanyu. He has everything except the stamina. He'll become world champion sooner rather than later.

Gachinski was vastly overscored, especailly in the PCS department. Poor basic skating skills, slow, very little ice coverage, typical 6.0 choreography to save energy for big jumps. How the hell did he get a bronze medal at world championships?

I also quite enjoy Kevin. It's almost like he no longer cares about how judges will score him. He's completely liberated. I think he's now shooting for record book, please audience and himself instead of judges. Maybe miracle will suddently strike him one day and he'll be crowned as world champion? It's possible with 3 quad jumps, 2 3axels...

I think it's more likely for Reynolds to do 4 different quads before he does 2 3As -- he's never been able to get it together with that jump.

genki · Nov 5, 2011

OMG, when Jeremy skates like this I have no words, in tears, such a beautiful soul. Now this is the rare case when I think a quad doesn't matter (though he needed that second 3A imho).

This program, choreography routine ranks up there with John Curry imho ~ a male ballerino on ice ~ exquisite, exquisite, exquisite...

And his spins are on a dime (a specialty of the Satos).

Ahhhhh, no words, just soul....

This is the reason why I watch figure skating. Not looking closely at somebody's boots to appreciate allegedly spectacular SS.

aemeraldrainc · Nov 5, 2011

skateflower;589903 I also quite enjoy Kevin. It's almost like he no longer cares about how judges will score him. He's completely liberated. I think he's now shooting for record book said:
That would be awesome!
I hope someday he gets his due.
And I know most everyone here hates it, but I love his hair!!
There. I said it. (There's no slink away smilie in this forum? Oopsie. Wrong forum. Hehe)

gmyers · Nov 5, 2011

wallylutz said:
Really, he was Dracula? I thought he was a member of the Adam's family to be honest. It just goes to show he still has a long way to go to help the audience to actually understand what he was trying to portray.

He does need to improve because he can't fall on one jump without a whole competition going down the tubes. He's got no buffer. His PCS is low enough that it provides really no help.

Men - Long Program

FTnoona

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

skatinginbc

jettasian

Match Penalty

chuckm

Puchi

christinaskater

wallylutz

Bluebonnet

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

lavender

gmyers

gmyers

yunafan1860

skateflower

Match Penalty

wallylutz

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

genki

aemeraldrainc

gmyers

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