Carolina Kostner: A wake up call to other skaters to focus more on artistry?

^ (Buttercup)

os168 said:

With all due respect Mrs.P, you just answered the question yourself by your reference. In what artistic sense did Carolina bring justice to the Shostakovich's Piano Trio No.2 which you just outlined with all the information above?

While I agree Shostakovich's Piano Trio No. 2 is an inspired and interesting choice, Carolina's 'package' failed acknowledge the original content other than use it as a fluff background piece of music to complement her often rash and sometimes erratic style. If a mistake is made, the beat is tonal rather than lyrical capable of covering her mistakes where she can pick up the beat again.

Carolina also clearly favour 'fashion du jour' over her 'art'. Yellow or in particular 'Baby Chick Yellow' is the 'IN' colour right now according to all the fashion colour forecasts for 2011/12. It is a colour of joy, happiness, warmth, cheerfulness. So what has that actually got to do with Piano Trio No.2? It is practically the opposite from anything from the Shostakovich repertoire including this piece. (Shostakovich music are usually pensive serious pieces, of sadness and bitterness, poignancy highlighted by his internal conflicted and personal struggles with Russian's own cultural persecution, witness to war and oppression, and through his music he searches and contemplate for meaning and truth on the morale role of art and music in the middle of the bloodiest time of 20th century)

Click to expand...

Like Buttercup, I've read your criticism and I don't know how to respond.

That said, and I don't claim to know Carolina's intentions, wouldn't it be worth pointing out that yellow, of course, is the color of the Jewish stars that they had to don on their clothing to be identifiable to the Nazis? The symbol of pride for an entire people has become a symbol of degregation from the Nazi point of view So maybe the yellow represents this contrast -- the contrast of happiness because of what it represents contrasted with the struggles that came with it also.

That's what came in mind to me.

I appreciate your effort, os168, to explain your points, but I have to be honest and say that they're a bit lost for me. I'm not sure if you're criticizing Carolina's skating or her taste in art and culture. So I think we'll just have to accept that we see things differently.

To me, interpreting music does not only mean expressing the underlying story. If this was the case, everyone skating or dancing to any piece of music would have very limited options. As a music student (and soon to be professional) I have come to understand that while a composer has some idea for the beginning of composing work, also their current set of mind and personalities affect on their chosen harmonies and rhythms. As each musician has to find their own way of understanding and CONNECTING with the piece, it often comes to a point where you just can't get to the point where you would get a syphilis just to understand what say Schubert was going through while writing his late pieces. You just have to get into the music and find it there. And the great thing about music is that everyone finds different things to accentuate in each piece. And to me, that's exactly what Carolina has done. While the piece is dedicated to the victims, it being based on a traditional dance gives it a more cheerful tone. And therefore in my opinion Carolina's take is justified.

(please excuse any weird nonsense sentences there, I am running a high-ish fever and it kinda affects my brains)

...

While I appreciate some of the statements made here and respect folks opinions, I find Carolina Kostner to be one of the least musical and artistic. She reminds me a great deal of Maria Buteryskya (sp) but with much softer knees. Carolina does have some beautiful jumps but her body shape is not one I find aesthetically pleasing for singles skating. Outside of the skating world, she has a wonderful figure! Of all the skating disciplines, dance would be the only one I could see where her body shape would be an asset. I find that tall, willowy skaters have a harder time sensing where their body is in the air and as a result, strike unappealing positions - often without realizing it. The only exception to this, and perhaps it's not really an exception is Alyssa. I'm not sure I'd call her tall and willowy.

Just my few cents.

FlattFan said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Or3h9dfbyFk#t=223s

She's dragging Abbott down the rink. Look at her speed across the ice. If Patrick Chan consistently gets 9+ for skating skill regardless of the number of falls, Caro should get 9s for SS as well. I just love her programs.

Click to expand...

Speed isn't everything. In fact Kostner's problems over the years have been that she's almost out of control with her speed. It's only in the last couple years that she's learned to rein her speed in.

Buttercup said:

os168, I'm sure the point you're getting at is very clear to you, but I honestly have no idea what you want.

Click to expand...

I don't want anything. I thought we have having an open discussion on what Carolina bring to this sport that qualifies as art with the examples was given, and I am merely responding to why I disagree with reasons 1,2,3 plus an deconstructed critique of the usage of 'art' in this sport.

You seemed to take offense at me pointing out the obvious (though none intended), this conservative sport is very much part of the eurocentric malaise that governs the sport, therefore naturally the judges and the audiences have acquired certain musical and style preferences as part of its dominant culture, it is only natural no?

We often hear chatter like XXX is an artistic because he/she picked XXX, but theoretically figure skating is not a competition of music choices but how and what the skater can bring onto the ice responding to music, both in sport and art. Selecting the right music that is going to be popular with the judges is part of the competitive advantage everyone has to play regardless if you are Japanese, African, Turkish, Welsh, Alien! Carolina just has better hereditary rights and support than others, but imho that has made her artistically complacent based on what I have seen. While good tastes can be bought, but what you bring on the ice is just yourself. I can see she is a good skater but it is the artistic claim I am questioning.

Her tech content is dumbed down and has been for a while: she was injured. She's still not 100% from what I've read. Many of the ladies are omitting one jump or another; either they make up for it in other ways or they don't. Kostner does: I don't like the "figure skating, not figure jumping" line, but she has spent a lot of time on other parts of her skating, including skating skills, step sequences and spins (she said that was her focus between SA and CoC, to get the levels up).

Click to expand...

Then that makes a far more convincing explanation than what the thread title implies, that she has dumbed it down to focus on artistry. It would be nice if it happens don't get me wrong, but based on what I can see so far, I am not yet convinced.

To produce an artistically credible program is not about the ability to 'accessorize', but see how each of the elements can be integrated with each other seamlessly to form an credible opinion and not sitting pretty on its own.

- Required elements
- Levels of difficulty
- Techniques
- Creative brief (what is your program about beyond winning)
- Choreography
- Music and Musicality
- Costume
- Form (Which should more on the organic extension of the creative program, and less of what the performer's existing qualities.)
- Performance
- Essence or Spirit of the performer
- Originality and Risk taking (Optional)
- Audience (Are the audience convinced of the value what the performer are trying to say?)

It require creativity, technicality, research, study and working incredibly hard with sensitivity, control and clarity of thoughts and make informed decisions. Sometimes lucky accidents or unique circumstances can elevate what is produced into something else beyond. That is why it is VERY rare to see genuine art produced because it requires everything working seamlessly together.

That's why great art is infinately precious, timeless and priceless.

Mrs. P said:

Like Buttercup, I've read your criticism and I don't know how to respond.
That said, and I don't claim to know Carolina's intentions, wouldn't it be worth pointing out that yellow, of course, is the color of the Jewish stars that they had to don on their clothing to be identifiable to the Nazis? ....
I appreciate your effort, os168, to explain your points, but I have to be honest and say that they're a bit lost for me. I'm not sure if you're criticizing Carolina's skating or her taste in art and culture. So I think we'll just have to accept that we see things differently.

Click to expand...

Interesting thought. Is Carolina Jewish? Because that would bring value to her performance I had not considered before.
I respectfully agree with your last sentence and think you won't be alone in disagreeing with me among the Kostner fans.

To me, interpreting music does not only mean expressing the underlying story. If this was the case, everyone skating or dancing to any piece of music would have very limited options. .... And to me, that's exactly what Carolina has done. While the piece is dedicated to the victims, it being based on a traditional dance gives it a more cheerful tone. And therefore in my opinion Carolina's take is justified.

Click to expand...

I agree with you about underlying story is NOT the only way, but it is a huge part of achieving something 'artistically truthful' and being respectful to the source. And actually has Carolina said it was her intention to dedicated to the victims?(!) Has she shown care and attention to historical and sensitive subjects like this in her programs in the past?

I am merely emphasis that there MUST be some thoughts when performing ANY original work of ANY kind. Some general research, empathy towards the work, the composer's intentions; to its history, circumstance would all surely affect and elevate the performer's ability to frame a state of mind with deliberated opinion when deliver these performances. The performer's role is then simply convince the audience of their informed decisions.

Ideally, music used in sport should not begin and ends with music selection, but what one does with it when performing it.
Without these processes, what one create is Not art, it is merely choreographer's routine.

Had Carolina's work been consistently thoughtful, diverse and artistically credible, then I'd agree with you. But the only things that seems to be consistent are her aesthetics form, good techniques and remained emotional monotone throughout all the performances irrespective of the music piece she skate to. All qualifies her as a great technical skater with ability to count the beat while following someone's instructions, but questionable as a true artistic skater, which surely every skater aspire to be.

When I see potential greatness ends up being lazy, contrived, thoughtless and tactless claimed as 'art'.... however well done, I can't help but want to cut through all the superficiality BS by pointing out actually it is merely better package with less mistakes.

This criticism is not just to her, but majority of the programs today, products of the COP monster that award points but suppress the chances of true art happening.

If the criticism applies to most programs, then why single out Kostner?

I'd like to know some of the programs that meet your exhaustive socio-political-cultural-aesthetic criteria.

Honestly the whole Eurocentric thing is crap, to be perfectly honest. You have Kwan, Shen/Zhao, Pang/Tong, Yu Na Kim, Daisuke Takahashi, Mao Asada, etc. as the top skaters of our era. You have more and more skaters performing to Asian and Middle Eastern music. (I'm thinking especially of some of the young Americans but I don't remember which ones because I wasn't looking for that.) What more does it take to put the European bias thing to rest? Ditch the whole tradition of figure skating and start over? Sorry, I just get so bored with this kind of thing!

uh....I think you guys have mistaken what I mean by eurocentric and somehow made it about nationality and race, it is not.
(Although I admit the lines does blur because figure skating is also governed by the Europeans.)

I have used it describe 'what' it takes to win medals. Amongst all Asian skaters you mentioned, what is the music, the root of their aesthetics forms that provide the basis that won them the medals? I rest my case.

In a sport which is shaped by human judgement, so of course the culture that shaped their judgement matters. Eurocentricsm is not a bad thing, it is merely acknowledging the dominated culture which this sport thrive on, along with majority of western arts subjects (as well as your term socio-political-cultural-aesthetic subjects). Particularly the word 'aesthetics' itself which is so prevalent in how we interpret what we see is entirely a western (eurocentric) term through the study of anthropology, and doesn't not even exist in Eastern languages.

Figure skating along with ballet, the study of music, art history, music and art theories are all part of the eurocentric movement that dominated world wide regardless if you are from the US, South America, Japan, China, Antarctica, Oz etc... we are all subject to eurocentricsm. If we want to go into deeper, there is vast difference between Eastern and Western civilization's views on art. West generally preoccupies with form, while Eastern tends to preoccupies with the essence, spirit, the mood and the truth of art - Although with globalisation and more of cultural exchanges, it is getting more balanced and it should. One could argue Figure Skating is still relatively conservative when compared to the majority of performance art forms out there like dance, but I am glad it is changing and evolving.