Fake also has the pejorative meaning of deception, liar and all those negative connotation built into it. It is such a strong word that carries more emotions than I tried to convey and a term that I clearly didn't use. I object someone else put words in my mouth. Re: Mao's 3A, I have clearly stated my view on that jump and I am not going to change my mind. Feel free to disagree all you want, no amount of arguing will change the fact the vast majority of judges feel the same way seeing how often she gets negative GOE even when the technical panel doesn't give it a < or <<. So there is no point to keep beating the same dead horse, let's agree to disagree.
Mao needs victory at NHK Trophy to regain confidence
- Thread starter japanice
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Fake also has the pejorative meaning of deception, liar and all those negative connotation built into it. It is such a strong word that carries more emotions than I tried to convey and a term that I clearly didn't use. I object someone else put words in my mouth. Re: Mao's 3A, I have clearly stated my view on that jump and I am not going to change my mind. Feel free to disagree all you want, no amount of arguing will change the fact the vast majority of judges feel the same way seeing how often she gets negative GOE even when the technical panel doesn't give it a < or <<. So there is no point to keep beating the same dead horse, let's agree to disagree.
So what if Mao Asada can't jump like Midori Ito. No woman can, and Asada isn't competiting against Midori, last I checked. But Asada has other things over Midori. Mao is a gorgeous skater. Her posture, her carriage her lines are just beautiful. She's one of the few skaters that can bring me to tears when I watch her skate. I think she's one of the most beautiful skaters I've seen. I think her triple axel, at times can kind of take away from the talk of how beautiful Asada's skating is. I was sad that Asada's Olympic programs didn't really show off her light, effortless quality. I like Mao doing drama, but I wish the music had some highs and lows. Twenty years from now I will remember Asada as a skater who pushed the boundries technically AND artistically. Asada's one of the most well rounded skaters ever. IMO.
At the end of the day, Asada won her first World title without the triple axel, whereas Midori was in many ways more married to it. If your going to dismiss Mao because she can't jump like Midori, you should also dismiss ever other female skater, because it wasn't just Midori's triple axels that were impressive.
At the end of the day I agree with Rafael Arturian, Mao Asada's greatest strength is not her triple axel, Mao Asada's greatest strength is her beautiful skating.
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- Jun 16, 2010
Midori Ito was not just a jumping bean, and she definitely wasnt just the triple axel. All her jumps were better than all the other women. Her spins and footwork were excellent, especialy in her younger years. Her basic skating was tremendous and along with her power enabled her to skate with amazing speed and ice coverage. She radiated energy and drew crowds into her performances. Some of her performances as she got older were quite nice artistically as well.
Midori's 89 and 90 World Championship performance (well 90 she blew away the field in the long program but lost to Trenary due to the stupid figures in their last year where she came 10th, and since the super weak field meant Jill got to come 2nd in the long with a program 45% as good as Midori's) would have blown away either of Mao's World title winning performances. Heck Mao didnt even win the long program of either. The only performance of the last 5 years that could compete with Midori at her best is Yu Na Kim from Vancouver, that is it really.
Here are some of the best performances of Queen Midori:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8tLyMqTpA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKGasODrAcU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPy9Jazifns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsy50CpgiWM&feature=related
Midori's 89 and 90 World Championship performance (well 90 she blew away the field in the long program but lost to Trenary due to the stupid figures in their last year where she came 10th, and since the super weak field meant Jill got to come 2nd in the long with a program 45% as good as Midori's) would have blown away either of Mao's World title winning performances. Heck Mao didnt even win the long program of either. The only performance of the last 5 years that could compete with Midori at her best is Yu Na Kim from Vancouver, that is it really.
Here are some of the best performances of Queen Midori:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8tLyMqTpA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKGasODrAcU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPy9Jazifns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsy50CpgiWM&feature=related
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- Jun 21, 2003
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- Sep 22, 2010
Midori Ito's triple Axel was so good and only one of a few done by women that it pretty much became the only standard by which to judge women's triple Axels. It's not fair, of course, Midori's other jumps are not held as the ultimate standard. But that's because many women have executed the other five triples just as well if not better. It's hard for a judge to determine where a woman's triple Axel falls in the continuum of -3 to +3 GOE when there isn't a large sample of executed women's triple Axels to compare it to and thereby conclude that it has great speed, height, etc. If Midori's triple Axel only merits a +3 GOE, then I don't blame the judges for giving Mao's and the few other ladies' 3A a GOE of 0 or -1.
In any case, Mao appears to be moving in the right direction from what we've seen last year. She reintroduced her (f)lutz, the salchow, and reworked her flip technique. She's going for a full set of triples and if she succeed, she may yet make history again by being the first woman to do eight triples in a long program.
I'm really looking forward to her performances this year, especially since she's keeping her LP, which has grown on me. I just hope she's gained some weight since last season's Worlds.
In any case, Mao appears to be moving in the right direction from what we've seen last year. She reintroduced her (f)lutz, the salchow, and reworked her flip technique. She's going for a full set of triples and if she succeed, she may yet make history again by being the first woman to do eight triples in a long program.
I'm really looking forward to her performances this year, especially since she's keeping her LP, which has grown on me. I just hope she's gained some weight since last season's Worlds.
I agree! While I'm very glad Mao has a triple axel, I watch her for other aspects of her skating, and she moves me like no other skater of today. I agree that she's one of the best rounded skaters ever: both athletic and artistic. I don't care who comes up between now and Sochi, I'm rooting for Mao.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2011
How unnecessary and immature.
Am I? According to some, criticizing Mao's Triple Axel = biased against her or not giving her enough credit. It begs to ask, if there is nothing to criticize (about it), why so many troubles of actually doing it in competition? Forgive me, she even had trouble in practices as well, let alone the competition. The bottom line is she has little confidence on that jump because she doesn't even believe she has it, hence the low success rate in practices and competition for the last 2 years. Then it stands to ask further, why does she seem to have some confidence issue on that jump? Could it be that she struggles to get 3 and half rotations out of it even in the best of the time? :think: See, I have maintained this same opinion about her Triple Axel for many years now, which often led me to attacked by a few overly enthusiastic Mao fans. Still, my position hasn't changed and won't. Like I said, it would be best that she considers foregoing this jump until she has the confidence to fully rotate it most of the time. It doesn't matter so much if she falls on a fully rotated one but it really hurts when the jump isn't, in addition to other errors that may come with it. This is a case where less can be more and a lesson can be learned from Carolina Kostner. Take it however you will, if I don't care about her skating, I wouldn't be taking the time to follow up on this for so long. Some people can't accept constructive criticism due to their fandom, there is nothing I can do about that.
What is exactly you point, wallylutz?
If you actually read some post by enthusiastic Mao fans" (the Mao forum would be a good place to go) you'd known that Mao simply isn't concentrating on 3A for now (and in fact many fans said that they'd prefer her to replace it with 2A for now); mastering the other jumps and improving her speed and power are her current goals. There's only so much a skater can work on at the same time.
That doesn't mean the 3As she's done in the past were not "real", nor that she will not work on improving the consistency of her 3A once she fulfills her current goals. She's hardly ancient. Akiko just landed her first 3-3 at the tender age of 26; a feat that probably not many fans had expected her to accomplish a few years ago, when she was still struggling with solo jumps.
If you actually read some post by enthusiastic Mao fans" (the Mao forum would be a good place to go) you'd known that Mao simply isn't concentrating on 3A for now (and in fact many fans said that they'd prefer her to replace it with 2A for now); mastering the other jumps and improving her speed and power are her current goals. There's only so much a skater can work on at the same time.
That doesn't mean the 3As she's done in the past were not "real", nor that she will not work on improving the consistency of her 3A once she fulfills her current goals. She's hardly ancient. Akiko just landed her first 3-3 at the tender age of 26; a feat that probably not many fans had expected her to accomplish a few years ago, when she was still struggling with solo jumps.
Seems to me, you are here to argue & pontificate, but not to politely discuss & read:
wallylutz said:
Can't be any clearer than this unless the reader doesn't understand English.
Sorry, I don't buy this claim. This is what we call "hedging" and it just comes across as excuses in case I fail. Do you hear Daisuke hedging on his jumps? Nope, a sportsman doesn't say: "Well you know, I am not really focusing on that for now but I am doing it in competition anyway." You go into a competition fully prepared, success or failure is uncertain but you go in there giving your all and that means you give your 100% during training. Quite frankly, Mao needs to stop relying on those crappy excuses. Same goes for her comment about the poor performance at the 2011 Worlds because she didn't really want to be there after the March earthquakes. When I hear these things, it makes me cringe.
I am sorry if this opinion is bound to be unpopular but a successful athlete cannot have a hedging attitude like this, even it means to try to manage the fans' expectation.
The issues on her Triple Axels are quite chronic by now. Like I said, I am not going to keep beating the same dead horse. I stated my view quite clearly on it, feel free to disagree. Suffice to say, if she keep insisting on using that jump in lieu of others, she runs a high risk of bruising herself pretty badly on a high risk element that has some serious chronic issues, just like the flutzing on the Lutzes. And it really doesn't matter whether she did or didn't have real Triple Axels in the past. What matters is now and the future. She can't a get a fully rotated 3 and half one out there today, then everything that happened in the past is meaningless. You have to question the wisdom of keep beating oneself up psychologically with that one element when what she needs the most is to rebuild her confidence. As I predicted earlier in this thread, Akiko shined and turned head. Have you ever seen me criticizing Akiko on her jumps? Nope. It's called credit where credit is due. Some people seem to only want hear honey all the time. I am sorry to say the reality is cruel and I am a subscriber of tough love.
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- Jun 16, 2010
Very true, but sadly all this particular poster seems capable of.
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- Nov 19, 2010
Wallylutz gives his honest and analyzed opinion on Mao's 3A. There is no personal attacks on her or unrelated matters regarding her skating. He is not commenting on her character, career success or her other skills and abilities. Agree or disagree, argue but accept supporting facts brought up including her most recent failed 3A instead of personal insults.
Personally, I admire her beautiful skating and her determination to improve her jumps in spite of her considerable success. What confuses me, however, is the seemingly contradictory objectives of her efforts since last year. Relearning jumping techniques indicates a will to make fundamental improvements incurring short term career sacrifices for a long term goal, namely 2014 Olympics. Yet focusing on her 3A seems more for current competition scoring while diffusing her effort on the other jumps. I think Wallylutz' opinion that it's better for her to focus on one area, i.e. forgoing 3A for now according to him, a plausible idea.
Personally, I admire her beautiful skating and her determination to improve her jumps in spite of her considerable success. What confuses me, however, is the seemingly contradictory objectives of her efforts since last year. Relearning jumping techniques indicates a will to make fundamental improvements incurring short term career sacrifices for a long term goal, namely 2014 Olympics. Yet focusing on her 3A seems more for current competition scoring while diffusing her effort on the other jumps. I think Wallylutz' opinion that it's better for her to focus on one area, i.e. forgoing 3A for now according to him, a plausible idea.
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Well if you look at how many points she lost on the 3A, she is indeed better off doing a 2A in the short and saving them for the long. Most of the lead Alena had on Mao was on the single axel alone (3.16 out of the 3.34 points).
It is confusing indeed. On one end, supposedly knowledgeable Mao followers are telling us that her focus is not on the 3A but on other areas such as rebuilding the technique on her other jumps. If that's true, how come the 3Lz was absent from the SP? I mean, if the focus is to eliminate the flutzing, which would be an important goal, you'd think she would at least show that in the SP. Instead, she went and attempted a jump that is said to be not her focus and failed?
You see why things don't add up?
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- Feb 17, 2010
I also disagree with wally but his criticism is fair. From my perspective, if she has 4 or 5 other triples ready, i'd say for sure don't do the 3A, but she doesn't. She has to take the risk at this point. (I'm assuming that the 3A is at least somewhat consistent in practice.) It's clear her skating (nonjumps) have improved, but it is troubling that she has had issues with these jumps going on 3 seasons now.
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- Jun 16, 2010
Mao won the Olympic Silver because of her triple axels. She wouldnt have won it otherwise as Joannie had caught or surpassed her in all other areas of jumping and overall performance by then. They also helped her to her second World title in 2010. She is wise to continue with the triple axels as they clearly benefit her when she skates well. The key is for her to get consistency on her other jumps back, and that is why she has redone her technique, sacrificing a whole season already (last season and maybe more) in a determined effort to do so to better her Sochi chances. Her choreography is also much better now that she is no longer working with Tarasova who gave her programs that didnt suit her strengths.
