The Shibutanis thread

Mrs. P · Nov 11, 2011

I thought it would be fun to start a thread on these two. I think regardless of where they end up by season's end, I think my admiration of these two very classy and hard-working siblings won't change.

Also, the Shibs post such fun stuff that doesn't quite work in the competition threads I thought it would be good to put it here:

http://lockerz.com/s/155041063 — Maia's photo with Yuko Kavaguti (She tweets: We are #AsiaTrip2011 survivors!)

https://twitter.com/#!/MaiaShibutani/status/134951528212606977 <--- She thanked the Japanese fans for their support in Japanese, I thought that was sweet.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....175014982515105.51564.168543383162265&type=1 <-- funny photo of Alex with Ricky Dornbush.

http://figureskatingconfessions.tumblr.com/post/12419867204 <----Ross Miner + Maia Shibutani = a match made in heaven?

Buttercup · Nov 11, 2011

Alex writes some of the best tweets I've seen, and his blog entries for IN last year (?) were hilarious. Actually, I think they have a lot more personality and humor than their current (and recent) programs have allowed them to show. I'd love to see something less traditional from those two, and I bet Alex could come up with some fun concepts if given the opportunity.

pangtongfan · Nov 11, 2011

Buttercup said:
Alex writes some of the best tweets I've seen, and his blog entries for IN last year (?) were hilarious. Actually, I think they have a lot more personality and humor than their current (and recent) programs have allowed them to show. I'd love to see something less traditional from those two, and I bet Alex could come up with some fun concepts if given the opportunity.

I agree. Their programs this year dont due their talent justice. They might be hoping 1 of the top 2 teams retire so they can get more attention, otherwise they might be seeking a new coach soon.

CARA · Nov 12, 2011

pangtongfan said:
I agree. Their programs this year dont due their talent justice. They might be hoping 1 of the top 2 teams retire so they can get more attention, otherwise they might be seeking a new coach soon.

But do they go? I now education is very important to them, and the Michigan state is an excellent school as well as accommodating to elite athletes like them.
In terms of coaches, can you think of anyone who could coach skaters of their caliber and with restriction of being siblings?

IMHO, the better alternative is to stay where they are but to hire a top notch choreographer.

Buttercup · Nov 12, 2011

CARA said:
But do they go? I now education is very important to them, and the Michigan state is an excellent school as well as accommodating to elite athletes like them.
In terms of coaches, can you think of anyone who could coach skaters of their caliber and with restriction of being siblings?

IMHO, the better alternative is to stay where they are but to hire a top notch choreographer.

I'm not sure people attending Michigan would be happy to be identified as Michigan State students, and vice versa!

I actually agree that the Shibs would be fine with a new choreographer - do Canton teams ever work with outside ice dance choreographers, though? If they ever felt compelled to make a coaching change, there are other options in Michigan, such as DSC (Krylova and Camerlengo) and Yuri Chesnichenko/Yaroslava Nechaeva, who are coaching at least two Michigan students (Emily Samuelson and Lynn Kriengkrairut).

IMO, two recent sibling teams managed to work around that restriction rather well, from a creative perspective: the Kerrs and the Zaretskis. Both were NJ-based, the Kerrs trained by Platov and the Zars by Galit Chait. I'm not sure who did their choreo (other than the Kerrs' lovely Exogenesis FD; that was Peter Tchernyshev's work).

CARA · Nov 12, 2011

I personally love to see the Shibs dance a magnificent piece like "Missing." However, I'm not sure if Christopher Dean has been able to take best advantage on COP system.

Mrs. P · Nov 12, 2011

They have done a range of programs at previous levels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McxhneBBB44&feature=related <<-- 2006/07 FD to Memoirs of a Geisha (they won the Novice title at Nationals)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIR0VgcWnk <<-- 2007/08 FD to Taiko Drums (they were fourth in Juniors at Nationals)
http://www.youtube.com/user/shibfan#p/c/471D9DF24717A251/11/HDzfUAp4T6k <---- 2008/09 to Cinema Paradiso (second in Juniors at Nationals; second at JW)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lBDNb36iWM <----- 2009/10 to Tango music (as Cara mentioned) (They were National champs in juniors; finished 4th at JW, but third at the JGPF; you can see that Maia is still getting used to her new body.)

To me this shows they are capaible of different ranges, we just haven't seen that at the senior level, namely because I think they are focusing on absolutely perfecting their tech, especially in the SD, which seems to be their weakness at this point.

CARA · Nov 12, 2011

Mrs. P said:
They have done a range of programs at previous levels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McxhneBBB44&feature=related <<-- 2006/07 FD to Memoirs of a Geisha (they won the Novice title at Nationals)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIR0VgcWnk <<-- 2007/08 FD to Taiko Drums (they were fourth in Juniors at Nationals)
http://www.youtube.com/user/shibfan#p/c/471D9DF24717A251/11/HDzfUAp4T6k <---- 2008/09 to Cinema Paradiso (second in Juniors at Nationals; second at JW)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lBDNb36iWM <----- 2009/10 to Tango music (as Cara mentioned) (They were National champs in juniors; finished 4th at JW, but third at the JGPF; you can see that Maia is still getting used to her new body.)

To me this shows they are capaible of different ranges, we just haven't seen that at the senior level, namely because I think they are focusing on absolutely perfecting their tech, especially in the SD, which seems to be their weakness at this point.

Although I remarked that I'd love to see them skate a piece like "Missing," I tend to agree with their strategy of perfecting their technique, which will carry them far. Also, their much criticized current FD is actually quite age appropriate for their actual age. Their piece may look very young against other senior teams, but the TEC content of their program is solid against any teams out there.

In fact, I often worry about young senior teams making them look mature beyond their ages, eg., I/K. I love I/K, but they may be better served in the long run if they focus more on basic skating skills first, e.g., Nikita's twizzles, or increasing speed and ice coverage, etc.

I have no doubt that the Shibs will skate wider emotional range of programs in due time. Then I'd love to see them skate a piece like "Missing." :love:

dorispulaski · Nov 12, 2011

I would not mind, however, if the Shibs decided to replace "Skip to the Bip" with almost anything else in the SD :laugh:

IMO, it is their SD, not their FD, that should be seen as holding them back this season.

CARA · Nov 12, 2011

dorispulaski said:
I would not mind, however, if the Shibs decided to replace "Skip to the Bip" with almost anything else in the SD

IMO, it is their SD, not their FD, that should be seen as holding them back this season.

I agree. One thing I can count of this team: They are young but they are intelligent and driven. They changed Maia's costumes (both SD & FD)after their first outing (Finlandia), and they quickly rectified mistakes they made at COC by the time they arrived at NHK Trophy.

I'm not surprised that they start working on their SD right after arriving at their home base with the much improved SD a month later at GPF.

Come to think about it, I wonder some of the fierce hatred against the Shibs have something to do with how steady & together they are when in fact their perceived rivals are stumbling. :think:

ImaginaryPogue · Nov 12, 2011

CARA said:
Come to think about it, I wonder some of the fierce hatred against the Shibs have something to do with how steady & together they are when in fact their perceived rivals are stumbling. :think:

I think there's a lot of things at play here. Their rapid success, of course. Some stigma against the rise of North American ice dance (witness Anissina's recent comments). Some stigma against the specific coaching school. Some genuine disappointment with their programs and type of skating.

CARA · Nov 12, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
I think there's a lot of things at play here. Their rapid success, of course. Some stigma against the rise of North American ice dance (witness Anissina's recent comments). Some stigma against the specific coaching school. Some genuine disappointment with their programs and type of skating.

You've got valid notions there.

Mrs. P · Nov 12, 2011

CARA said:
Although I remarked that I'd love to see them skate a piece like "Missing," I tend to agree with their strategy of perfecting their technique, which will carry them far. Also, their much criticized current FD is actually quite age appropriate for their actual age. Their piece may look very young against other senior teams, but the TEC content of their program is solid against any teams out there.

In fact, I often worry about young senior teams making them look mature beyond their ages, eg., I/K. I love I/K, but they may be better served in the long run if they focus more on basic skating skills first, e.g., Nikita's twizzles, or increasing speed and ice coverage, etc.

I have no doubt that the Shibs will skate wider emotional range of programs in due time. Then I'd love to see them skate a piece like "Missing."

Slightly OT, and maybe should go for further discussion in an I/K thread, but I feel have such great music choices only to not have the synergy and tech to pull it off.

And also feel that they are not dancing together but rather showing Elena off, as I mentioned in the thread.

In general, It seems that the JW medalists from 2010 (I/K, P/I ) have been underwhelming thus far. I would be interested to see how Monko and Khaliavin do. Too bad they withdrew from their GP events. I think they benefited from having an extra year in juniors.

CARA said:
I agree. One thing I can count of this team: They are young but they are intelligent and driven. They changed Maia's costumes (both SD & FD)after their first outing (Finlandia), and they quickly rectified mistakes they made at COC by the time they arrived at NHK Trophy.

I'm not surprised that they start working on their SD right after arriving at their home base with the much improved SD a month later at GPF.

Come to think about it, I wonder some of the fierce hatred against the Shibs have something to do with how steady & together they are when in fact their perceived rivals are stumbling.

I am amazed that they were able to make so many improvements in just one week while traveling and practicing in foreign rinks.

Also, on the surface they had a rapid rise, but yes it really has been slow and steady. They were on the junior circuit on the national level for THREE years, which these days seems like an eternity. They were beaten by the Hubbells and Zuerlin and Chock in juniors only to completely blow them away by the time they reached the senior level.

CARA · Nov 12, 2011

Mrs. P said:
Slightly OT, and maybe should go for further discussion in an I/K thread, but I feel have such great music choices only to not have the synergy and tech to pull it off.

And also feel that they are not dancing together but rather showing Elena off, as I mentioned in the thread...

That's exactly my point about basic skating skills. In fact given Morozov's gimmicky strategy, I wondered how much of their circular twizzles during FD have a lot to do with hiding their lack of unison, rather than really practicing basic twizzle technique.

Same thing can be said about Elena-centric choreo: I just wonder how much is has to do with covering up their lack of unison and aligning their lines, etc.

I don't fault them for trying to maximize their assets but I still would like to see them gaining basics like W/P had done for the last couple of years.

Mrs. P · Nov 15, 2011

From Maia's Twitter:

Sang karaoke w/ Taka, @AshWagner2010, @AlexShibutani, @rossminer, + others. Really fun, but my voice is a little hoarse. #karaokescreaming

Sounds like a good night. Wonder if Taka is a good singer?

skateluvr · Nov 15, 2011

Shibs epitomize what Ice dance was in golden era. I like them as much as anyone. I loved their last year programs better. I'd love to see them get a world gold medal. It would be amazing to see two dance teams on Sochi podium, hehe...payback for Grisha Platov's horrible skating. No offense Pasha fans, lol.

CARA · Nov 15, 2011

Mrs. P said:
From Maia's Twitter:

Sounds like a good night. Wonder if Taka is a good singer?

Oh, that's so cute! They all deserved a fun evening. Really happy for the Shibs, Taka, and especially Ross Miner, who had the first GP medal. It made me smile broadly to see just how happy he looked during the medal celemony. :laugh:

chloepoco · Nov 15, 2011

CARA said:
Oh, that's so cute! They all deserved a fun evening. Really happy for the Shibs, Taka, and especially Ross Miner, who had the first GP medal. It made me smile broadly to see just how happy he looked during the medal celemony.

Is Taka -- Takahiko (Kozuka) or (Daisuke) Takahashi?

Mrs. P · Nov 15, 2011

chloepoco said:
Is Taka -- Takahiko (Kozuka) or (Daisuke) Takahashi?

That would be Kozuka. The Shibutanis and Taka have become friends over the year.

Here's a photo album of them hanging out with Taka when he was in Michigan (I think it was for a fundraiser for Japan).

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.270854489597820.91102.168543383162265&type=3

ETA: He was in town for the Detroit Skating Club's fundraiser for Japan: A Magical Night for Japan in June: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110526&content_id=19598020&vkey=ice_pressrelease

Here are the Shibs' photos from that event: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.234129456603657.83944.168543383162265

skatinginbc · Nov 15, 2011

Are the Shibs the first "Asian" (ethnic) team that ever won an ice-dance medal at the World championship?

The Shibutanis thread

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Buttercup

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

CARA

Buttercup

CARA

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

CARA

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

CARA

ImaginaryPogue

CARA

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

CARA

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

skateluvr

CARA

chloepoco

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

skatinginbc

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