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Thread: Men's Free Program, Sat. Nov. 12 at 10:55 pm EST

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by koheikun90 View Post
    If some of you are hardcore gymnastics fans, blues for klook was the floor exercise music used by Silivia Mitova of Bulgaria in the early 90's. It was so revolutionary and groundbreaking at the time and remains one of the most iconic routines of all time. There is really no other performer whether a gymnast, skater or dancer that can interpret this music other than daisuke. he really oozes the attitude and vibe that this piece resonants. It shows that the scoring system is no excuse to not put out program that is innovative and edgy and above all a performance. I can't wait to see him skate it cleanly.This could be on my list of one greatest programs in history.
    I always loved that routine. I still get it out and watch it from time to time. I'm also seeing/remembering that Usova/Zhulin used this music in 1992/93 for their free dance - quite effectively.
    Last edited by A.H.Black; 11-13-2011 at 10:57 AM.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Kozuka's ambition in quad doesn't work out well so far. He URed all three of his quad attempts this season. One fell and one two-footed. Then he took it out in SP this time. It hurt his PCS.
    It is the TES, not PCS, that should be hurt by the errors you pointed out. Daisuke has had worse results re his quads and other jumps for over a season without his PCS being adversely affected. In each GP this season, there is at least one Man who seems to get higher PCS than the performance merits, in some fans' opinions including mine, such as KVPP, Fernandez, and Mroz. Kozuka's PCS then seem low in comparison. He has recently said that his PCS has risen with his Worlds Silver medal but this opinion, or rather hope, has not been borne out with real results. Instead, the spread between his PCS and that of Daisuke has increased to over 10 points.

    I think his major non technical issue as far as his performance is concerned is a missing relationship or chemistry with his music like Takahashi and Chan have with theirs. Their hearts can be seen at one with their music whereas Kozuka is perfunctorily skating to his, unable to protray its feelings and beauty. This may have an overall effect on his PCS. Or some expert conspiracists can offer political explanations?
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 11-13-2011 at 10:59 AM.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    Hanyu was on the scene a year ago and still he was the one left home. Until Hanyu will be able to stay strong in the second half of his LP, he doesn't guarantee a better showing on the world scene than the top 3 japanese.
    In Cup of China thread, he posted "I think this kid still has a long way to go if he wants that spot on the Japanese World team this year." May be in one week the long way he mentioned has become a bit shorter.

    Anyway, I agree with you with his strength issue and his chance on world team is totally not guarantee, but now there are no Japanese man that are really really consistence (May be Oda, but he is just get off from the injury and cannot jump quad like he used to do - At cup of china even Yuzuru fall 2 time and double Salchow his tes is just 2 points less than Oda who didn't fall or skip jump); therefore, I think this year (Apart from Dai who is locked in my opinion) the spots are more open than last year.
    Last edited by treeloving; 11-13-2011 at 10:47 AM.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeloving View Post
    In Cup of China thread, he posted "I think this kid still has a long way to go if he wants that spot on the Japanese World team this year." May be in one week the long way he mentioned has become a bit shorter.
    That is true, Hanyu still has a lot to improve and prove. What makes you think that has changed? Jump for jump, if they all skate clean, it's unlikely Hanyu will be given 3rd or better at Japanese Nationals due to the issues I mentioned at Cup of China. That said, when was the last time you saw any of these Japanese skaters doing clean programs for both SP and LP? I can't recall, must be long time ago. If the door is left open, you bet Hanyu has the potential to take advantage of it.

    Anyway, I agree with you with his strength issue and his chance on world team is totally not guarantee, but now there are no Japanese man that are really really consistence (May be Oda, but he is just get off from the injury and cannot jump quad like he used to do - At cup of china even Yuzuru fall 2 time and double Salchow his tes is just 2 points less than Oda who didn't fall or skip jump); therefore, I think this year (Apart from Dai who is locked in my opinion) the spots are more open than last year.
    I disagree with Takahashi being a lock - not in an environment where you have potentially 4 men in your country who could make it to the podium in Nice. Maybe you have forgot already but Takahashi's FS at Skate Canada would have placed him way off the Top 5 or 6 in the World had that happened in Nice and he has also finished dead last in so many competitions in the past two years, notably this year's Japan Open and last year's GPF. He is probably the least consistent Japanese top men right now so you'll have to pray he doesn't bomb the Japanese Nationals.

  5. #170
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    ^^^^^Takahashi will not bomb the Japanese Nationals. He might get beaten depending on his physical condition and how others skate but he will not beat himself. Takahashi always rises up to his hero status in front of his royal subjects, who also can afford to travel to support him, but there is nothing like a home crowd.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 11-13-2011 at 12:09 PM.

  6. #171
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    Here is what Takahashi should do, if he wants to compete with Chan. (Not that Daisuke asked me for my advice. )

    Enter every B tournament he can find until he hits a quad flip. Then he will have his name in the record books, right there in the line below Brandon Mroz.

    Now get down to serious business. Drop the quad and do your thing. Skate your best and let the chips fall as they way.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.H.Black View Post
    I always loved that routine. I still get it out and watch it from time to time. I'm also seeing/remembering that Usova/Zhulin used this music in 1992/93 for their free dance - quite effectively.
    I love these posts b/c:

    a.) Usova&Zhulin were the first people I thought of when I first saw Daisuke skating to this at SC ~ I LOVE both of their routines! I still remember the shivers I got when I saw U&Z skating to this the Fall of 1994, and Dick Button in raptures over Maya Usova (seriously, I think he was in love with her, no joke). And then 17 yrs. later Daisuke reprising it to make it all his own as well. Ahhh...

    I wish I could upload my old VHS tape of this, but I don't know how to, so y'all have to make do with this one, which imho isn't as special as the one that I taped that Fall of '94: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsWNvBVBdLs


    b.) I'm a huge gymnastic fan (or used to be, stopped watching fanatically once the former Soviet Union split up and as a result the best Gymnastic School in history was no more). Anyhow, I like the discussion about great gymnastic routines. Here's one for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dvu-zhTZt8

    Btw, I love the one I have on my old VHS tape, where Bart Connor commented "now comes the maddic dance of the Bulgarian".


    Sorry for straying off topic, but I just now got on the computer and was reading the comments from where I left off last night. Still haven't watched the entire competition on IN nor read the whole thread (btw I wish the GPs wouldn't take place on the weekend, as I'm bound to miss them). :( But what I've seen thus far of the results page over on the ISU site tells me that I didn't miss much. Sounds like a badly skated event except for the top 2, and even then it wasn't clean. Still, Daisuke Takahashi is truly something special, so glad to see both of his performances live on IN.

    Lol, every Fall these GPs wear me out, but I wouldn't miss them for the world. Now only two more to go, then back to regular sleeping hours, et al! :D

  8. #173
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    ^^^^
    Well, I already forecasted splatfests this season, with a few great successes in quad attempts.

    I also observed one youngster stepping up onto the podium in each GP event and wondered who it might be at NHK. Ross Miner answered the call.

  9. #174
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    Joe - so great to see you back!!!

    Mathman - that's hilarious (about Takahashi, senior Bs, record bood, etc).

    Did Mrs. P do her score breakdown???? I didn't see it in the thread.

    I love, love, love both of Takahashi's programs. It's funny how some music can grab you and leave someone else cold, but this LP music just grabs me and he really, really sets a mood from the first to the last beat. Well done. As a Takahashi, Kazuka, and Chan ultra-uber in love fan (among others I might add), I seriously cannot wait until the GPFs and Worlds to seem them "head to head" with such different styles, strengths, and music choices.

    On the topic of Miner, someone discussed above how he actually has more transitions in this LP than Buttle did in his WC LP - interesting and truthfully I wouldn't have thought that without the discussion, and your point about how Buttle placed and sold his transitions better or that he highlighted them well is a nice point. I think I still see, nonetheless, shades of Buttle in Miner's carriage and persona on ice, as well as in his attempt to be moving those feet at all times but smoothely and with control. Anyway, whether or not Miner emulates or is similar to Buttle, I still bet he could learns tons working with him sometime. Regardless, so happy to see him medal.

    don't totally understand why Armin scores are so low, although I would love a new costume for the LP if not a new or revised version of this, and best best of luck next time.

    Nice to see Verner and the others. Hope Verner can stay healthy and skate clean....

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    ^^^^^Takahashi will not bomb the Japanese Nationals. He might get beaten depending on his physical condition and how others skate but he will not beat himself. Takahashi always rises up to his hero status in front of his royal subjects, who also can afford to travel to support him, but there is nothing like a home crowd.
    Completely in agreement. Takahashi look as the best so far of all the 4 top japanese who will likely represent Japan at wolrds.
    He also has a sizeable cushion due to his PCS, which makes up to at least one triple if not two.
    And 3rd of all, he may be punching his World team ticket BEFORE the japanese nationals, as people need to remember that the JSF selects the GPF medalists automatically to the world team.
    Dai has already qualified to the GPF and frankly I see no reason for him not to be able to medal there.
    Last edited by herios; 11-13-2011 at 01:55 PM.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    And 3rd of all, he may be punching his World team ticket BEFORE the japanese nationals, as people need to remember that the JSF selects the GPF medalists automatically to the world team.
    Dai has already qualified to the GPF and frankly I see no reason for him not to be able to medal there.
    That rule had been eliminated since last year and it applied to the Japanese who finished the highest at the GPF, though not necessarily a medalist. So unfortunately, it is no longer possible to qualify through GPF. In any event, it is not a sure thing he will necessarily be the top Japanese man as Oda, Hanyu and Kozuka all still have a chance to qualify. His recent record at GPF has been quite dismal, finishing last in Beijing 2010.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    That rule had been eliminated since last year and it applied to the Japanese who finished the highest at the GPF, though not necessarily a medalist. So unfortunately, it is no longer possible to qualify through GPF. In any event, it is not a sure thing he will necessarily be the top Japanese man as Oda, Hanyu and Kozuka all still have a chance to qualify. His recent record at GPF has been quite dismal, finishing last in Beijing 2010.
    Thanks for pointing that out.

  13. #178
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    Aside from the top two at this competition - am I the only one who liked Machida's programs? I thought his LP was excellent in terms of choreography, music nuances and lightness. It was very classical, yes, but to me it was truly enchanting. Later I found out that Lambiel choreographed it! And it showed, IMO.

    Someone asked about the idea behind Menshoves program - well... I heard he is portraying a motocyclist who tries to escape Moscow traffic...
    How did this program got better marks than Machida's, is beyond me. They both made serious mistakes. But Machida had less of them and they did not disturb the choreography that much. The program was joy to watch, whereas Menshov's was very hard to digest.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Oh, the LOLsiness of the poster upthread who thought Dai's marks are being inflated to that he could compete with Chan. I think Dai deserves his IN and P&E 9s far more than Patrick, whose strengths lie more in the technical part of the PCS (SS/TR). I'm really enjoying toned-down Dai this season; there have been times in the past when I felt he was overdoing it with the expression, but this year it's just perfect. Kudos to David Wilson and Pasquale Camerlengo for giving him two excellent vehicles that showcase what he can do. I think the judging here sends a clear message to the guys: bring your A-game if you want to compete with Takahashi.
    PCS is subjective. Technically, he's no where near Chan. To see Dai's mark got inflated to Chan's level is scandalous. Dai shouldn't even try the quad, because he will be rewarded regardless. I'm glad at least you notice his ridiculous over reacted expression in many of his skates. I guess that's what they called "artistry".

  15. #180
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    ^ I quite like Machida's skating and his programs - costumes and all - this year. It will be nice to watch him grow and gain control of his programs/cleanness - but he has great flow, and energy/stamina, and does really try to sell it even with mistakes.

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