oh, i like that! it's so much more fanciful! :D
oh, i like that! it's so much more fanciful! :D
We happen to come to different conclusions overall, and I'm sure everyone will have slightly different perceptions. Some will say, "Oh you already didn't like Chan on artistry." However, it is amazing to me how much Chan's weakness in artistry becomes even more obvious without the music. Chan's use and positioning of his arms, especially, is not very good (not aesthetically pleasing).
Last edited by Art&Sport; 11-17-2011 at 05:44 AM.
I think one should keep in mind that the significant differences in choreography and style of movement (yes, even when just watching their feet) between the two men may affect one's perception of their skating skills.
Chan's 2011 World LP vs Takahashi's 2011 NHK LP, Patrick skated it for two years while Daisuke has skated it for just a few months.
I don't know why people want to determine who is better. They are different and both of them are truly fabulous.
I can't agree to comparison of musicality and interpretation without music even if one watches the total movements, unless there is a huge gap like between those of entirely different levels. These are subjective enough as it is and even differ between performances by the same skater.
What I can agree whole heartedly to is that both Takahashi and Chan are fabulous skaters and we are lucky that they are both currently competing and spurring each other on.
If, say, Chan has a 10 in SS you can't say that someone with supposed, a 9 in SS like Takahashi is weak and/or lacking in that area.
BTW, I'm glad to see that Aranjuez's last step sequence is choreographed with very different emphasis from POTO's which was choreographed before the sequence became non leveled to encourage expression with few constraints. All the turns and quick motions in POTO were retained because they went with the passionate and climatic ending of the program. Aranjuez final sequence is not designed with lots of moves for levels but is more sweeping and grand in accordance with the music. Chan's amazing skills are still showcased but differently.
Last edited by Violet Bliss; 11-17-2011 at 12:56 PM.
Dai's choreo calls for him to be off balance -- that's part of what makes his performance interesting and watchable.
The choreo will always be a factor in how the skaters are moving [and therefore the choreo influences how their movements are perceived].
It can be an interesting exercise to view on mute. I do much prefer watching with the music, but without the usually non-stop commentary.
Here's Dai's Swan Lake hip hop program, which was so much fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8pt3Q-J5WU (Russian clip, but commentators don't talk through it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YCuZ...eature=related (ESPN with commentary -- tho' I like Paul's take)
The "Cyber Swan" program was an important beginning in Dai's development as a dancer on ice. The program generated a lot of excitement when it debuted, and Dai has come full circle this year with "In the Garden of Souls," and "Blues for Klook."
I agree with you. Compare Chan's new LP with Takahashi's new LP, I can still see the superiority in this category from Chan. And I'm surprised too that Takahashi's spins were so unflattering under this kind of close observation. I think using this method could analyse all technical details such as jumps, spins, and the levels of footworks. We could even use this method to understand better why and how the judges gave each skater the transition marks they've given.
I also agree with you that it is unfair to use this method to judge anything related to the level of artistry or the level of musicality. It could give you a general understanding of how the skaters move in the programs. But how they move reflecting into the level of artistry or the level of musicality is totally connected with the music. Therefore, the conclusion might be too inaccurate, or even wrong.
Unless you want to determine the range of the style of a skater, or compare the styles of different skaters. Not that you can't decide a style with the music. Music helped to decide the style. But without music, you could focus on the details of the movements more. If you want to know more how a skater moves, this might help.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-17-2011 at 11:37 PM.
I also tried watching Bradley's skating feet.
Sponsors should be very happy with Bradley's skate. Advertisements on the boards can be clearly read as still pictures. With all the stroking Bradley does, he seems to stay on one spot most of the time. On two feet.
Thanks for the suggestion about watching without music and just focus on the feet. After watching Chan skate, the rest of the field looks pale.