Ice Dance - Free Dance | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Ice Dance - Free Dance

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Perhaps he is the stem, and she is the flower....?

Or they could be following in the grand ol' footsteps of Barbara Fusar-Poli and Maurizio Margaglio.

Hm...I'd like Elena to give the GLARE OF DEATH sometime =) Though she seems so fierce then then she totally rips that perception with all peace signs at the kiss and cry.
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Nikita is not as poor as Margaglio. But I do feel this team is being groomed to perform like a 90's or 00s style team, where she is the entire focus of the duo.
 

Dots

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Technical ability as in ability to execute the technical elements (twizzles, lifts, and spins). That doesn't necessarily mean they have the deepest edges. I/K's program had more originality than that paint-by-numbers program by the Shib's.


lol...

In what universe were I/K more original than S/S ? The skated to Ave Maria for god's sake! and to add insult to injury they even copied one of the Shibutani's lifts :laugh: And let's not talk about their OD.
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
@Flat Fan

S/S were held down....they should have won.
ups, but they won, didn't they?

I would say that W/P were the team that was held up in the SD, they were messy and had
more than one mistake. If the Shibs were held up please show me where. Have you looked
at the protocols? The shibs margin of victory was minuscule and they knew coming into to the FD in 3rd place
that in order for them to win it would be on TES and that is exactly what they did. Afterall this is sport.
The judges gave the edge to the Shibs and imo rightfully so.
 

jChamp

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Z/G were six points behind the top 3 teams in PCS. That's where the horrible crap programs of S/S should be. They PCS is losing but way too high for such crap. They are bing held up because they are a Spiliband team and train with DW and VM so they must be near their level! They are getting the benefit of the doubt even though two seasons in a row now they have delivered the exact same trash and garbage programs.

Wait. I'm confused. Do you like the Shibs or not??
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Looking at the protocol, I note that judges gave W/P higher GOE and PCS over S/S. In other words, in the judges' minds, they had W/P first over S/S but due to the level on one element, which was the spin, a 2.00 difference in base value resulted in S/S being ahead. They were also helped by a 1.00 deduction for extended lift, which was again, not decided by the judges. To me, W/P had the performance of the night but their error on the spin was glaring, which I noticed as well - just didn't realize the penalty was that severe, a wopping 2.00 points on that element alone because elsewhere, their levels are identical to that of the Shibs.

Regarding I/K, there was no question in mind that FD is below both W/P and S/S today. It was very, very obvious - way too much SBS skating and separations. Their in-between skating lacks intricacy. The lifts weren't terribly original and at times shaky. They had a good lead yet they blew it. I like the fact that judges are calling it as they see it, this should give the conspiracy theorists a rest.

Overall, I am not sure what to take away from this competition. I feel they are all bunched fairly close together from 4th to about 8th in the world and these scores reflect that. In other words, a difference 1 or 2 points could determine a team finishing 4th in Nice or 8th instead yet getting the former vs. the latter is a big deal. Should make for a pretty exciting season to follow, I look forward to the GPF. Congratulations to all the medalists, job well done.

I think that is the takeaway. The bronze is going to be a dogfight, with P/B with a slight advantage. So really top five is going to be a dog flight too between B/S, S/S, W/P, C/L and I/K.

And after seeing I/K, I actually appreciate B/S' program a little more. Still think their skating is a bit sloppy, but they definitely did Faust a lot more justice than I/K did with their dark version of Ava Maria.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
lol...

In what universe were I/K more original than S/S ? The skated to Ave Maria for god's sake! and to add insult to injury they even copied one of the Shibutani's lifts :laugh: And let's not talk about their OD.

Original is smiling whie performing like you are at some pageant? Their intepretation and performance is nothing to write home about.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Also, worth noting that W/P scored better PCS here than in Canada. Should bode well for them.

I think bronze is between P/B and B/S, truthfully. The rest of the top ten should be a gong show, though.
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Looking at the protocol, I note that judges gave W/P higher GOE and PCS over S/S. In other words, in the judges' minds, they had W/P first over S/S but due to the level on one element, which was the spin, a 2.00 difference in base value resulted in S/S being ahead. They were also helped by a 1.00 deduction for extended lift, which was again, not decided by the judges. To me, W/P had the performance of the night but their error on the spin was glaring, which I noticed as well - just didn't realize the penalty was that severe, a wopping 2.00 points on that element alone because elsewhere, their levels are identical to that of the Shibs.

I didn't realize that W/P had made a mistake on the spin at all. In that case, I apologize for my earlier comment about S/S being held up. Without the spin issue and lift deduction, W/P would have had a 94, which seems right. I still wish they could have won, but I understand why they didn't.
 

Dots

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Original is smiling whie performing like you are at some pageant? Their intepretation and performance is nothing to write home about.

or I/K's overkill of dramatic poses and sad faces :laugh: that's not originality.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Looking at the protocol, I note that judges gave W/P higher GOE and PCS over S/S. In other words, in the judges' minds, they had W/P first over S/S but due to the level on one element, which was the spin, a 2.00 difference in base value resulted in S/S being ahead. They were also helped by a 1.00 deduction for extended lift, which was again, not decided by the judges. To me, W/P had the performance of the night but their error on the spin was glaring, which I noticed as well - just didn't realize the penalty was that severe, a wopping 2.00 points on that element alone because elsewhere, their levels are identical to that of the Shibs.

Regarding I/K, there was no question in mind that FD is below both W/P and S/S today. It was very, very obvious - way too much SBS skating and separations. Their in-between skating lacks intricacy. The lifts weren't terribly original and at times shaky. They had a good lead yet they blew it. I like the fact that judges are calling it as they see it, this should give the conspiracy theorists a rest.

Overall, I am not sure what to take away from this competition. I feel they are all bunched fairly close together from 4th to about 8th in the world and these scores reflect that. In other words, a difference 1 or 2 points could determine a team finishing 4th in Nice or 8th instead yet getting the former vs. the latter is a big deal. Should make for a pretty exciting season to follow, I look forward to the GPF. Congratulations to all the medalists, job well done.


Actually Shibs got higher GOEs 45.84 than W/P 44.30, but W/P got higher PCS but lost 2 points on base value to the Shibs.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Z/G were six points behind the top 3 teams in PCS. That's where the horrible crap programs of S/S should be. They PCS is losing but way too high for such crap. They are bing held up because they are a Spiliband team and train with DW and VM so they must be near their level! They are getting the benefit of the doubt even though two seasons in a row now they have delivered the exact same trash and garbage programs.

Nonsense. The ISU has even used the Shibs as an example of how to generate higher GOE/PCS scores in one of their training tapes.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Actually Shibs got higher GOEs 45.84 than W/P 44.30, but W/P got higher PCS but lost 2 points on base value to the Shibs.

I think in the actual GOE earned by W/P (7.8) vs S/S (7.34).
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I would say that W/P were the team that was held up in the SD, they were messy and had
more than one mistake.

Really? Where was the 2nd mistake?

If the Shibs were held up please show me where.

I wouldn't use the term "held up" since that's too confrontational. I noticed Alex struggled on the 1st part of their twizzles and the lift started with a bump, causing it to extend a little bit. Two minor errors there, definitely not clean. Combined with issues on CH and IN, rightfully 3rd in my mind for the SD.

Have you looked
at the protocols? The shibs margin of victory was minuscule and they knew coming into to the FD in 3rd place
that in order for them to win it would be on TES and that is exactly what they did. Afterall this is sport.
The judges gave the edge to the Shibs and imo rightfully so.

Yeah, if you look at the protocol, the judges actually gave the edge to W/P by far. Higher GOE and PCS, both of which are controlled by the judges. Shibs victory was decided by the level on one spin, called by the Technical Panel and a 1.00 extended lift deduction called by the referee. Just want to get the facts straight.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Actually Shibs got higher GOEs 45.84 than W/P 44.30, but W/P got higher PCS but lost 2 points on base value to the Shibs.

I think you are mixing up GOE vs. TES. Base Value + GOE = TES Judges only decide the GOE, not the Base Value, which are called by the Technical Panel. Of the areas called by the judges, GOE and PCS, the judges clearly favored W/P and I agree. The Tech. Panel did their job and the result was fair. In terms of GOE, Mrs. P correctly count for you already, edge went to W/P.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Also, worth noting that W/P scored better PCS here than in Canada. Should bode well for them.

I think bronze is between P/B and B/S, truthfully. The rest of the top ten should be a gong show, though.

You guys are thinking too much ahead. One step at a time. A lot could happen until then.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
The Shibutanis are talented, well-matched, hardworking, and genuine.

You jelly?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I think you are mixing up GOE vs. TES. Base Value + GOE = TES Judges only decide the GOE, not the Base Value, which are called by the Technical Panel. Of the areas called by the judges, GOE and PCS, the judges clearly favored W/P and I agree. The Tech. Panel did their job and the result was fair. In terms of GOE, Mrs. P correctly count for you already, edge went to W/P.

I think in the end, they were close and the win could have gone to either team really. S/S also got a -1 for an extended lift in the SD. So in the end taking the deductions out :

SD

W/P = 60.07
S/S = 60.02

FD
S/S = 92.83
W/P = 92.69

Overall
S/S= 152.85
W/P = 152.76


Also:
Tech
S/S 29.50 (SD) 45.84 (FD) Total 75.34
W/P 28.51 (SD) 44.30 (SD) Total 72.81


+GOE

S/S 3.50 (SD); 7.34 (FD) Total 10.84
W/P 2.51 (SD); 7.80 (FD) Total 10.31

PCS
W/P 31.56 (SD) 48.39 (FD) = 79.95
S/S 30.52 (SD) 46.99 (FD) = 77.51

So if there was a clear preference from the judges today for W/P, it was in PCS. And Shibs edged on Tech, as expected. So in the end, they're close.
 
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