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Thread: Ice Dance - Free Dance

  1. #106
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Looking at the protocol, I note that judges gave W/P higher GOE and PCS over S/S. In other words, in the judges' minds, they had W/P first over S/S but due to the level on one element, which was the spin, a 2.00 difference in base value resulted in S/S being ahead. They were also helped by a 1.00 deduction for extended lift, which was again, not decided by the judges. To me, W/P had the performance of the night but their error on the spin was glaring, which I noticed as well - just didn't realize the penalty was that severe, a wopping 2.00 points on that element alone because elsewhere, their levels are identical to that of the Shibs.

    Regarding I/K, there was no question in mind that FD is below both W/P and S/S today. It was very, very obvious - way too much SBS skating and separations. Their in-between skating lacks intricacy. The lifts weren't terribly original and at times shaky. They had a good lead yet they blew it. I like the fact that judges are calling it as they see it, this should give the conspiracy theorists a rest.

    Overall, I am not sure what to take away from this competition. I feel they are all bunched fairly close together from 4th to about 8th in the world and these scores reflect that. In other words, a difference 1 or 2 points could determine a team finishing 4th in Nice or 8th instead yet getting the former vs. the latter is a big deal. Should make for a pretty exciting season to follow, I look forward to the GPF. Congratulations to all the medalists, job well done.
    I think that is the takeaway. The bronze is going to be a dogfight, with P/B with a slight advantage. So really top five is going to be a dog flight too between B/S, S/S, W/P, C/L and I/K.

    And after seeing I/K, I actually appreciate B/S' program a little more. Still think their skating is a bit sloppy, but they definitely did Faust a lot more justice than I/K did with their dark version of Ava Maria.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dots View Post
    lol...

    In what universe were I/K more original than S/S ? The skated to Ave Maria for god's sake! and to add insult to injury they even copied one of the Shibutani's lifts And let's not talk about their OD.
    Original is smiling whie performing like you are at some pageant? Their intepretation and performance is nothing to write home about.

  3. #108
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    Also, worth noting that W/P scored better PCS here than in Canada. Should bode well for them.

    I think bronze is between P/B and B/S, truthfully. The rest of the top ten should be a gong show, though.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsKuF...eature=related

    They scored a 92.63 at Finlandia.
    Thank you!

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Looking at the protocol, I note that judges gave W/P higher GOE and PCS over S/S. In other words, in the judges' minds, they had W/P first over S/S but due to the level on one element, which was the spin, a 2.00 difference in base value resulted in S/S being ahead. They were also helped by a 1.00 deduction for extended lift, which was again, not decided by the judges. To me, W/P had the performance of the night but their error on the spin was glaring, which I noticed as well - just didn't realize the penalty was that severe, a wopping 2.00 points on that element alone because elsewhere, their levels are identical to that of the Shibs.
    I didn't realize that W/P had made a mistake on the spin at all. In that case, I apologize for my earlier comment about S/S being held up. Without the spin issue and lift deduction, W/P would have had a 94, which seems right. I still wish they could have won, but I understand why they didn't.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Original is smiling whie performing like you are at some pageant? Their intepretation and performance is nothing to write home about.
    or I/K's overkill of dramatic poses and sad faces that's not originality.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Looking at the protocol, I note that judges gave W/P higher GOE and PCS over S/S. In other words, in the judges' minds, they had W/P first over S/S but due to the level on one element, which was the spin, a 2.00 difference in base value resulted in S/S being ahead. They were also helped by a 1.00 deduction for extended lift, which was again, not decided by the judges. To me, W/P had the performance of the night but their error on the spin was glaring, which I noticed as well - just didn't realize the penalty was that severe, a wopping 2.00 points on that element alone because elsewhere, their levels are identical to that of the Shibs.

    Regarding I/K, there was no question in mind that FD is below both W/P and S/S today. It was very, very obvious - way too much SBS skating and separations. Their in-between skating lacks intricacy. The lifts weren't terribly original and at times shaky. They had a good lead yet they blew it. I like the fact that judges are calling it as they see it, this should give the conspiracy theorists a rest.

    Overall, I am not sure what to take away from this competition. I feel they are all bunched fairly close together from 4th to about 8th in the world and these scores reflect that. In other words, a difference 1 or 2 points could determine a team finishing 4th in Nice or 8th instead yet getting the former vs. the latter is a big deal. Should make for a pretty exciting season to follow, I look forward to the GPF. Congratulations to all the medalists, job well done.

    Actually Shibs got higher GOEs 45.84 than W/P 44.30, but W/P got higher PCS but lost 2 points on base value to the Shibs.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Z/G were six points behind the top 3 teams in PCS. That's where the horrible crap programs of S/S should be. They PCS is losing but way too high for such crap. They are bing held up because they are a Spiliband team and train with DW and VM so they must be near their level! They are getting the benefit of the doubt even though two seasons in a row now they have delivered the exact same trash and garbage programs.
    Nonsense. The ISU has even used the Shibs as an example of how to generate higher GOE/PCS scores in one of their training tapes.

  9. #114
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Actually Shibs got higher GOEs 45.84 than W/P 44.30, but W/P got higher PCS but lost 2 points on base value to the Shibs.
    I think in the actual GOE earned by W/P (7.8) vs S/S (7.34).

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    I would say that W/P were the team that was held up in the SD, they were messy and had
    more than one mistake.
    Really? Where was the 2nd mistake?

    If the Shibs were held up please show me where.
    I wouldn't use the term "held up" since that's too confrontational. I noticed Alex struggled on the 1st part of their twizzles and the lift started with a bump, causing it to extend a little bit. Two minor errors there, definitely not clean. Combined with issues on CH and IN, rightfully 3rd in my mind for the SD.

    Have you looked
    at the protocols? The shibs margin of victory was minuscule and they knew coming into to the FD in 3rd place
    that in order for them to win it would be on TES and that is exactly what they did. Afterall this is sport.
    The judges gave the edge to the Shibs and imo rightfully so.
    Yeah, if you look at the protocol, the judges actually gave the edge to W/P by far. Higher GOE and PCS, both of which are controlled by the judges. Shibs victory was decided by the level on one spin, called by the Technical Panel and a 1.00 extended lift deduction called by the referee. Just want to get the facts straight.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Actually Shibs got higher GOEs 45.84 than W/P 44.30, but W/P got higher PCS but lost 2 points on base value to the Shibs.
    I think you are mixing up GOE vs. TES. Base Value + GOE = TES Judges only decide the GOE, not the Base Value, which are called by the Technical Panel. Of the areas called by the judges, GOE and PCS, the judges clearly favored W/P and I agree. The Tech. Panel did their job and the result was fair. In terms of GOE, Mrs. P correctly count for you already, edge went to W/P.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Also, worth noting that W/P scored better PCS here than in Canada. Should bode well for them.

    I think bronze is between P/B and B/S, truthfully. The rest of the top ten should be a gong show, though.
    You guys are thinking too much ahead. One step at a time. A lot could happen until then.

  13. #118
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    The Shibutanis are talented, well-matched, hardworking, and genuine.

    You jelly?

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    You guys are thinking too much ahead. One step at a time. A lot could happen until then.
    No, herios, Tony Harding isn't reinstating and no, she isn't going to be doing Ice Dance.

  15. #120
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I think you are mixing up GOE vs. TES. Base Value + GOE = TES Judges only decide the GOE, not the Base Value, which are called by the Technical Panel. Of the areas called by the judges, GOE and PCS, the judges clearly favored W/P and I agree. The Tech. Panel did their job and the result was fair. In terms of GOE, Mrs. P correctly count for you already, edge went to W/P.
    I think in the end, they were close and the win could have gone to either team really. S/S also got a -1 for an extended lift in the SD. So in the end taking the deductions out :

    SD

    W/P = 60.07
    S/S = 60.02

    FD
    S/S = 92.83
    W/P = 92.69

    Overall
    S/S= 152.85
    W/P = 152.76


    Also:
    Tech
    S/S 29.50 (SD) 45.84 (FD) Total 75.34
    W/P 28.51 (SD) 44.30 (SD) Total 72.81


    +GOE

    S/S 3.50 (SD); 7.34 (FD) Total 10.84
    W/P 2.51 (SD); 7.80 (FD) Total 10.31

    PCS
    W/P 31.56 (SD) 48.39 (FD) = 79.95
    S/S 30.52 (SD) 46.99 (FD) = 77.51

    So if there was a clear preference from the judges today for W/P, it was in PCS. And Shibs edged on Tech, as expected. So in the end, they're close.

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