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Thread: Men's Short Program, Fri. 11/18 at 9 am EST

  1. #106
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Maybe Chan is leting his hair grow to a mullet to make the quad more consistent?

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Maybe Chan is leting his hair grow to a mullet to make the quad more consistent?
    Ah, then I'll be even more convinced that he'll be an Olympic Champion with Plushy nose and mullet hair.

  3. #108
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    Typical for Patrick. My feeling: Those who love Chan, express your love and stop expecting that "everybody" just has to love him to death or there's something wrong. I credit Chan for what he does well, but I disagree with the over-scoring when he makes mistakes, and for me I don't feel that he has superb artistry and presentation. Also, I don't think his SS should automatically give him a 15 point advantage over everyone else. Beautiful 3-axel this time, but as for the rest, how is it sooooo much better than everyone else here just because he generally has great ss?

    The judges are in a quandary -- they seem to be saying: Must reward that quad, and Song was low-balled in fp at CoC, while Oda was overrated there, so they turned the tables here. IMO, Oda is not a great skater just b/c he has the jumps, but the judges fluctuate in how they rate Oda, often over-scoring him -- thankfully here they didn't. Obviously, Song does not have great presentation skills, but I think he skated his fp better than his sp at CoC, and may likely do that here as well. I don't think Song's better than average jumps and his quad here should have trumped his lack of presentation skills in the sp. I think Song was scored a tad too high. I would definitely have scored Kevin Reynolds at least around 70 pts, and Amodio below Kevin at around 69. Kevin had a really good program and wasn't rewarded, IMO. I also think that Brezina is an excellent jumper but is lacking in artistry (he was also shaky on his combo here), while Adam has better artistry with good to average jumps (but had a slight bobble after landing the 3-axel). Since he's been training the quad, Adam has shown some general weakness with his 3-axel which is known to often be shaky, so that reputation precedes him. However, because of their opposing strengths and weaknesses, I would say that Brezina and Adam to me are more on a par, unless Brezina skates lights out with his jumps which would give him the edge. But it looks like the judges will give Brez the edge over Rippon no matter what because JUMPING ABILITY seems to Always Trump Artistry, unless you are Patrick Chan -- who is automatically placed in a different category by the judges and his fans, no matter what he does.

    So, the judges are willing to place Song ahead of everybody who has better artistry because of his strong jumps, but when it comes to Chan, who also lacks artistry, but is better than Song at posing and has superior blades and good jumps when he's on, they'll keep Chan ahead. After all, Chan is the defending World champion, and on another planet apparently than the rest of his competitors. I would have had Chan around 79, with Song at 75, Adam and Brezina somewhat interchangeable with slight edge to Adam for superior artistry around 73, Brezina 72.50, Reynolds 70 to 71 and Amodio 69.

  4. #109
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    Kevin's hair looks deliberate or at least a style, while Patrick's is simply unkempt. If somebody comes to my office for an interview with unkempt hair, it gives me an impression that he might not take it seriously or doesn't really care. I guess that’s why I got the impression that Patrick was bored with his own program or did not seem to care. Don’t blame me for looking at his hair—superficial, I know. I’m a casual fan who can’t catch an under-rotated jump or a wrong edge, so I look at the “full picture” (I mean costumes and all that). Of course, judges are not as superficial as I am, and there is no such thing as “hair deduction” (but strangely there are “music deduction” and “costume deduction”).
    By the way, eccentric hair like Beethoven’s or Einstein’s actually gives an artistic impression. But sorry, Patrick. Yours is simply unkempt.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 11-18-2011 at 01:00 PM.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Kevin's hair looks deliberate or at least a style, while Patrick's is simply unkempt. If somebody comes to my office for an interview with unkempt hair, it gives me an impression that he might not take it seriously or don't really care. I guess that’s why I got the impression that Patrick was bored with his own program or did not seem to care. Don’t blame me for looking at his hair—superficial, I know. I’m a casual fan who can’t catch an under-rotated jump or a wrong edge, so I look at the “full picture” (I mean costumes and all that). Of course, judges are not as superficial as I am, and there is no such thing as “hair deduction” (but strangely there are “music deduction” and “costume deduction”).
    By the way, eccentric hair like Beethoven’s or Einstein’s actually gives an artistic impression. But sorry, Patrick. Yours is simply unkempt.
    Very true. That stated, Kevin Reynolds' hair looks like each individual strand plans on waging war with it's enemies, so I'll take unruly/unkempt over it any day. Of course, I have very short (african curly) hair so my opinion means fairly little. In a Canadian winter, you can put a handprint in it.

  6. #111
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    Art&Sport I so totally agree with your post. I can not understand Chan's high scores for botched programs. And what is more disheartening is that Chan, I think, actually believes he deserves them.

  7. #112
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    Art&Sport, you just don't like Chan's artistry. That is all. But he has good artistry in this program very suit his own personality. I think Chan's SP is very Patrick. He can relate it very well and he deserves high PCS for it. He and Song are not in the same league in artistry. He is way too good to be put in the same group with Song in this department.

    I think you weigh art more than what IJS actually weighes it in their system. That's why you are not happy most of the time with the results.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-18-2011 at 01:38 PM.

  8. #113
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    good luck to all ing free

  9. #114
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Actually, he tends to put in a combo when he misses a jump. But only when he's not supposed to.
    Heh, I missed the Men's SP's but when I saw the protocol sheet I noticed the irony, too.

    I had a feeling that Nan Song would skate well. Good for him.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Art&Sport, you just don't like Chan's artistry. That is all. But he has good artistry in this program very suit his own personality. I think Chan's SP is very Patrick. He can relate it very well and he deserves high PCS for it. He and Song are not in the same league in artistry. He is way too good to be put in the same group with Song in this department.

    I think you weigh art more than what IJS actually weighes it in their system. That's why you are not happy most of the time with the results.
    Yes, just like I have expressed, Bluebonnet, I believe Chan is weaker in artistry than skaters like Dai, Jeremy, Kozuka and Adam. As far as the results, if you notice in my previous post, I would still have Chan in first, but just not as high as the judges scored him. As far as placements, I thought Kevin should be rated higher than Amodio, and that Adam should slightly edge Brez on artistry but that Brez is generally stronger with jumps, but not always consistent. So the placements where I differ from what the judges decided, actually have not much to do with my assessment of Chan's skate.

    I certainly agree that Song is not in a high league re artistry -- but neither is Chan. I did say that Chan should edge Song by virtue of his better "posing" skills and his superior blade work, so obviously Chan's PCS in my estimate would be higher than Song's, but IMO, Chan's weakness in artistry is masked by his superior ss. ITs very true that IJS loves to reward jumps over artistry. In general, skating officials have always tended to reward jumps over artistry. The problem is that under IJS, the PCS marks are often manipulated, and do not always accurately reflect a skater's level of presentation skills.

    If you love Chan and feel he has superb artistry, enjoy! What does it matter that everyone doesn't see it the same? You don't need to tell me I don't like Chan's "artistry", as if my perceptions are somehow a failing on my part. Enjoy Chan and express your viewpoints. I don't enjoy Chan as much as you do, and I will express my viewpoints.

    Chan skated okay here, but it was nothing to write home about. I agree with those who said that the men weren't that great in this event overall. Adam didn't attempt the quad, but he skated well -- perhaps with not as much energy as at SA (altho' with fewer mistakes) -- I like Adam's program/ choreo better than Chan's. I also think Song had more energy and excitement in his skate, but he's definitely subpar presentation wise. I think Song winning a medal at CoC raised his status and profile with the judges. Brez didn't skate his absolute best and he didn't go for the quad either. I think that even the guys who can land the quad consistently are sometimes afraid to go for it out of fear of falling, while Chan probably feels he can always go for the quad whether he lands it or not, b/c the judges generally will score him higher regardless.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Nan Song has the 4/3 nailed! as well as his other elements, though the 4/3 was a bit slow, and I wish he wouldn't stalk that jump, but he did it again!

    Now I would like to see him have a totally different program, costume, choreography, et al, to do justice to his untapped other talents (loved his pointed toe on the sitspin).
    He's going to have better everything soon.....I read that the Chinese official said he earned himself the opportunity to go abroad to get his programs choreographed be big names!

  12. #117
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport;593712 [B
    Adam should slightly edge Brez on artistry [/B]but that Brez is generally stronger with jumps, but not always consistent.
    Sometimes Adam should, but I don't think today was that day. I am not even talking about musicality, but about the ability to stay on the beat. Rippon has that ability - but it didn't come through today. He was off the beat for the entire footwork section, he did not manage to adapt his skating to the change of tempo in the music. At least Brezina was on the beat (which admittedly is not too difficult with his choice of music).

  13. #118
    Rooting for Adrian, Javi and Kevin R!!! :) aemeraldrainc's Avatar
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    Wellllll,
    I don't have Internet and it's very frustrating not being able to watch..
    Now I won't have Universal Sports, either.

    But anyways, reading these posts..
    I really, really feel for Oda. I want him to do well, darn it! And I believe in him. He can get it together, please!
    Let's look at the bright side of things....
    At least, he's not peaking too early in the season(like was the case seasons past) and perhaps it means he's pacing himself and will kick butt later, when it really matters.
    I always wonder how he would do with another coach. I don't even know the name of his current coach. How long have they been together anyways?
    Maybe that's what he needs..
    Someone mentioned him speaking really good English up thread. Can anyone provide a link or was it only broadcast?

    And, I'm happy Kevin is not dead last, although I wish he was higher up.
    And come on, everyone, leave his hair alone already! sheeesh. lol. I like it!!
    I know people are always gonna complain about it, but just wanted to show my support and say that. Go KEVIN!!
    Would judges score him differently if he changed it, I wonder?

    Anyhow, going back to catching snippets on youtube and reading you guys on here whenever I get a chance. :(
    What would I do without Golden Skate?
    Last edited by aemeraldrainc; 11-18-2011 at 05:02 PM. Reason: just wanted to be more pg friendly before I got edited

  14. #119
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Pot, kettle, etc.
    I think we should start a Golden Skate tradition. Instead of saying "pot, kettle, black," let's change it to "donkey, chicken, big-head."

    That way, years in the future people will be scratching their heads, asking, what does that mean? Like we always wonder what voidy means on FSU.

  15. #120
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    I mentioned his English. Can't find a vid (I watched on IN livestream). I guess it's from having lived in NJ while training w/Morozov. But he seems to have been with Lee Barkell since the 2010-2011 season. Note that he was off the ice completely for 6 weeks last spring/summer due to injury, acc. to Wikipedia.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobunari_Oda

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