Ladies SP, 11/18/11

[LLLLutz]

Caro is not higher than Alissa in artistry and presentation skills. Their styles are different, but that doesn't mean Caro excels over Alissa in interpretation and choreography. You may enjoy Carolina's programs better -- a lot of fans do. However, Alissa and Carolina are not that far off in terms of artistry, altho' Alissa does edge Caro in spins and Caro has more speed and stronger jumps (altho' Caro's jumps aren't always consistent). Both of them need to step up if they want to be World champion.

I didn't say Caro is higher in artistry, cause I'm not sure what artistry is in figure skating, but Carolina does have better interpretation - her SP is sophisticated, innovative and very musical. And let's not forget she skates to Shostakovich, which is a huge challenge by itself and she might be the only woman in figure skating be able to skate to this piece like she does.
Alissa is, well, Alissa - soppy girly music, soppy girly skating, big smile. Yes, she has maybe the best flow out there and she knows to use her hands and hit great positions. I'm still waiting her to leave her comfort zone and go for it with some exciting stuff.

[dwiggin3]

Alissa - soppy girly music, soppy girly skating, big smile. Yes, she has maybe the best flow out there and she knows to use her hands and hit great positions. I'm still waiting her to leave her comfort zone and go for it with some exciting stuff.

You make an interesting point but I wonder, which is better or rewarded the most, a skater who knows exactly what works for them and sticks to it and does it better than most or a skater who tries different things, some producing good results, some not? While I agree that innovation and excitement is good in skating, I also think there is real merit is knowing what works well for you and perfecting it.

thoughts anyone?

[LLLLutz]

You make an interesting point but I wonder, which is better or rewarded the most, a skater who knows exactly what works for them and sticks to it and does it better than most or a skater who tries different things, some producing good results, some not? While I agree that innovation and excitement is good in skating, I also think there is real merit is knowing what works well for you and perfecting it.

thoughts anyone?

The judges are human after all, they are getting bored - it's just a question of when...

[brightphoton]

That argument of avant-garde interpretation vs. tried and true interpretation only works if both of them are good. The only thing Alissa has in common with Audrey is the color of her hair. Hepburn was regal and sophisticated, yet mischievous and free. I certainly don't remember Hepburn having a O_____O look on her face for an entire film.

[coolboogie22]

I'm proud that Elizaveta win the SP. I hope that it will wake up somes of the ladies. Today, it take a triple flip and a triple lutz for winning and, one of these 2 in combination with a triple toe or loop. The Kostner strategy triple toe/triple toe and an other easiest jump solo is ridiculous many ladies in the junior can do that (I'm wondering if she was inspired by Laura Lepisto with this strategy, it work in the past put for Sochi it will not work). I wish to see a change in those ladies who don't make the big jump in the SP because in Sochi the russian skater and other skaters like yu-na kim and maybe joannie rochette will go for the big trick.

[prettykeys]

That argument of avant-garde interpretation vs. tried and true interpretation only works if both of them are good. The only thing Alissa has in common with Audrey is the color of her hair. Hepburn was regal and sophisticated, yet mischievous and free. I certainly don't remember Hepburn having a O_____O look on her face for an entire film.

omg...LOL

[dwiggin3]

The judges are human after all, they are getting bored - it's just a question of when...

Yes, they are human but how do you know they are getting bored?

[LLLLutz]

Yes, they are human but how do you know they are getting bored?

Remember Sale & Pelletier in 2002 winning the technical scores and losing gold medal in presentation score for their two - three year old program, as soppy and empty as it gets ?
That's how she will know...

[krenseby]

Remember Sale & Pelletier in 2002 winning the technical scores and losing gold medal in presentation score for their two - three year old program, as soppy and empty as it gets ?
That's how she will know...

Whether they lost the gold medal at that point or actually won is not clear cut, now is it?

[Dots]

Remember Sale & Pelletier in 2002 winning the technical scores and losing gold medal in presentation score for their two - three year old program, as soppy and empty as it gets ?
That's how she will know...

...and nothing would make you feel better I'm sure.

Anyway, too bad about the jumps, Alissa's sp is one of my favorites ever. Her dress is very beautiful too

[Art&Sport]

I didn't say Caro is higher in artistry, cause I'm not sure what artistry is in figure skating, but Carolina does have better interpretation - her SP is sophisticated, innovative and very musical. And let's not forget she skates to Shostakovich, which is a huge challenge by itself and she might be the only woman in figure skating be able to skate to this piece like she does.
Alissa is, well, Alissa - soppy girly music, soppy girly skating, big smile. Yes, she has maybe the best flow out there and she knows to use her hands and hit great positions. I'm still waiting her to leave her comfort zone and go for it with some exciting stuff.

Fair enough, LLLLutz, you feel that Caro has better interpretation and choreography than Alissa. I think that Alissa has very good interpretation skills (as good as Caro) and better musicality than Caro, and more accomplished spins. I agree with you that Caro's choreography for her programs this season slightly edges Alissa's choreography, but that doesn't mean they aren't fairly equal in their overall ability to perform choreo.

"Soppy" for you, may be "beautiful and lyrical" to others. In any case, both Alissa and Carolina need to step it up and perform their programs with a lot more confidence, charisma and take charge attitude.

If you are not sure what "artistry" means in figure skating, start by taking a look at clips of Janet Lynn, Toller Cranston, John Curry, Robin Cousins, Jeffrey Buttle, Stephane Lambiel, Michelle Kwan, Gordeeva/Grinkov, Matt Savoie, and Johnny Weir at their best. Then you might want to take a look at both of Dai Takahashi's and Jeremy Abbott's programs this season. If that doesn't help explain artistry for you, I'm not sure what will.

[Bruin714]

[QUOTE=Spun Silver;593680]Pl. Name Nation TSS
= TES
+ PCS
+ SS TR PE CH IN Ded.
- StN.
1 Elizaveta TUKTAMISHEVA RUS 62.04 34.99 27.05 6.68 6.25 7.07 6.89 6.93 0.00 #4
2 Carolina KOSTNER ITA 59.70 29.88 30.82 7.86 7.36 7.61 7.82 7.86 1.00 #9
3 Alissa CZISNY USA 57.25 27.49 29.76 7.50 6.93 7.43 7.64 7.71 0.00 #8


The scoring of the PCS is still awful. Notice how Kostner received higher PCS than Czisny in every category (SS TR PE CH IN). The judges are just lazy.

[jiggs]

The scoring of the PCS is still awful. Notice how Kostner received higher PCS than Czisny in every category (SS TR PE CH IN). The judges are just lazy.

I disagree. Today, Caro was better than Alissa in all categories, which was reflected in PCS, and rightly so. Alissa's program is not nearly as difficult transition-wise and Caro was faster and had more attack. Alissa was cautious and slow today. When Alissa is on, her PCS should be similar to Caro's. But today, she just wasn't on. Elizaveta's PCS, on the other hand, were a little too high.

[Spun Silver]

I disagree. Today, Caro was better than Alissa in all categories, which was reflected in PCS, and rightly so. Alissa's program is not nearly as difficult transition-wise and Caro was faster and had more attack. Alissa was cautious and slow today. When Alissa is on, her PCS should be similar to Caro's. But today, she just wasn't on. Elizaveta's PCS, on the other hand, were a little too high.

Small point of fact: the words you attribute to me are not mine but Bruin714's. I agree with you re: Kostner and Czisny (per my previous comments in this thread).

[Sasha'sSpins]

Queen Tut does it again. This child is astounding. What aplomb! And those who say she lacks artistry are nuts. She'll get better with years but this was a fierce tango.

ITA! Queen Tut has won my heart! Crossing fingers the puberty monster is kept at bay from this little girl! HUGE talent there!

Yretha is my new favorite French skater! So much potential there!

Alissa-once again I had heart in mouth. Like with Mirai, I just cannot relax when watching her performances-especially in the SP. Imo she is very lucky to be ahead of Murakami after the SP. Carolina did very well in spite of a hand down on her second jump and the fall on the SS-she attempted and landed a 3T/3T! Great fight!