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Thread: Ladies SP, 11/18/11

  1. #91
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLLLutz View Post
    Remember Sale & Pelletier in 2002 winning the technical scores and losing gold medal in presentation score for their two - three year old program, as soppy and empty as it gets?
    Mme Le Gougne was especially bored.

  2. #92
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    I like Kanako's new mature look but her legs are just out of control. They are all over the place. She needs to learn to stretch out her legs..straighten them out or something.

    There's been some crazy falls this year. Carolina was really into her program so the fall wasn't a big deal. I like her long better though.

  3. #93
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I m so happy with Carolina 's sp that I forgot all the rest, I have watched it in the two previous Gps already but just cant get enough of it!
    And I m also thrilled with Elisaveta, especially thinking that in the past her sps were her nemesis, and the fact that Eurosport guys cant spell her name right, it is hilarious!

    Well done to Victoria also!
    What happened to Kanako this year, i feel they want to make a 17 skate like Arakawa, her programs dont suit her.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    I m so happy with Carolina 's sp that I forgot all the rest, I have watched it in the two previous Gps already but just cant get enough of it!
    And I m also thrilled with Elisaveta, especially thinking that in the past her sps were her nemesis, and the fact that Eurosport guys cant spell her name right, it is hilarious!

    Well done to Victoria also!
    What happened to Kanako this year, i feel they want to make a 17 skate like Arakawa, her programs dont suit her.
    I feel like Kanako has grown a bit. She seems all legs like Christina Gao has been in the last few year and has likely loss her center of gravity. Just from looking at her, she seems uncomfortable with her new body...

  5. #95
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    I really like Viktoria Helgesson's SP this season. Granted, I usually like her programs. It was the only SP I watched - I can't bring myself to be that interested in the ladies' comp this season, for some reason.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okami View Post
    Your jinxing powers are uncanny!
    That was quite hilarious but i actually meant Carolina or Alissa should win this in the end, my mistake heh

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwiggin3 View Post
    For me, these kinds of programs for Alissa help her demonstrate that sometimes less is more. I'm not a fan of program with so much flailing of arms and legs ect.
    I think the less-is-more approach is only effective for skaters with outstanding skating skills. I personally don't think she has those. I get that that's the thing team Alissa is going for, but I haven't warmed up to it yet. For instance, what transitions does she actually have in both her programs to receive the A-grade marks? Alissa is a lovely skater, but I'm feeling awkward about the sudden top-skater treatment. I felt the same way about Kanako last season (who I realise is a very different type of skater to Alissa. I mean in terms of the gap between what they show and what I see as hype and the marks they receive).

    The mule-kick you're referring- is it Caroline? Tara?
    Last edited by hikki; 11-19-2011 at 12:49 AM.

  8. #98
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    Just caught up with all top 3 performances on youtube. The 2 old guards stuck to the same old shtick again. Even if they are almost a decade older than Liza, their maturity, experience, competitive attitude apparently don't mean a heck of a lot competing next to her. They are suppose to have greater skating skills, but if it is a competition based on what one does on ice that day? Their score should be lower.

    Carolina upping her game to the easiest 3:3 of the whole lot, and Alissa having her usual 4 minutes Ice Princess Me special on the Life channel (Audrey Part II following Audrey Part I last year - sponsored by Colgate. I am wondering if it will be a trilogy). Both a bit overmarked as usual in PCS (were they really that close to Liza with what they put out there? Come on!). Carolina's program still feels emotional shallow, vapid and there's nothing integrated about her package, except maybe a more 'interesting' background music used which she remember to pose on time during this Shostakovich piece. She failed to engage to it with any depth or reading of the music or even feelings (other than trepidation which was written all over her face). But apparently depth, sophistication, and interpreting just don't mean a great deal in competitive figure skating these days.

    I don't know why people can't imagine this piece of music can work for skating, it has such a deliberate musical structure, sharply punctuated with motif through out. It is hardly shapeless, languid or over archingly lyrical that actually requires interpreting. If you can tap to the beat with your fingers and hum it, you sure can skate it. It should be stressed, it is not a competition of music choices but how the skater respond to it, and Carolina was just routine about it just like all her past performances.

    If anything, the music cleverly hid Carolina's lazy failing arms, clumsy forms and lack of style in general. I often wonder if Carolina ever does dumbbell lifting during her training, because if there are any muscles between her torso to her finger tips, she rarely make use of them especially in the 2nd half!! Just watch her last year's Tango SP also confirms this. Her performance here is just as musically contrived and lack finesse as it has always been. Mind you, it is certainly an accomplishment she can make Shostakovich sound so vanilla, regardless of the lemon zing her costume implied, artificial sweetened and there's nothing genuine about it.

    Liza proved why she is the great ingenue (soon no more) that would take the ladies by the storm this year. She is ballsy, gutsy, she owned the ice when she is ON and there's a world of difference between her performance attitude to the 2 other old guards. She attacks her program, she loves performing. Whatever limited/lacking program Liza were handed with, she did her best and was committed to it. The little ice coverage seems to be a trend right now, since points are rarely properly rewarded or penalized anyway. Of course Her physical size and limitation doesn't help either. I have said Liza is better than her programs and I am sticking to it. It is likely her choreography is the cheapest produced out of the 3, yet Liza's has added enough of her own embellishment to make it her own. Imo It is a better tango (even with a little Russia Diva attitude thrown in) than ALL of ladies's Tango Stampede last year including Akiko's and Carolina's.

    I can see her PCS is slowly increasing but I'd argue she deserve more if is marked purely based on what was put out on ice today - regardless of her obvious small physical size. She is the only one responded to the music with conviction, thoughts and clarity. On top of that, she went out there and owned her program and remind people it is a still a skating competition that require competitive technical content. She totally earned her place while other 2 just sat back and hope they won't make anymore whoopsidaisies. They should thank their lucky stars the Russian Babies are not competing at worlds this year.

    -------------

    Less is more only if there's more to begin with. Otherwise less is just less!
    Last edited by os168; 11-19-2011 at 06:21 AM.

  9. #99
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    Kostner really is the blade to ice skater, and those perfect jumps. WoW!

  10. #100
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    As many point out Elizaveta is still junior and she has the right to be so at 14. But it should show more in the pcs. She is great, I love her, but the difference between her and Carolina, Alissa and Viktoria is great. This is a ladies competition after all

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Fair enough, LLLLutz, you feel that Caro has better interpretation and choreography than Alissa. I think that Alissa has very good interpretation skills (as good as Caro) and better musicality than Caro, and more accomplished spins. I agree with you that Caro's choreography for her programs this season slightly edges Alissa's choreography, but that doesn't mean they aren't fairly equal in their overall ability to perform choreo.

    "Soppy" for you, may be "beautiful and lyrical" to others. In any case, both Alissa and Carolina need to step it up and perform their programs with a lot more confidence, charisma and take charge attitude.

    If you are not sure what "artistry" means in figure skating, start by taking a look at clips of Janet Lynn, Toller Cranston, John Curry, Robin Cousins, Jeffrey Buttle, Stephane Lambiel, Michelle Kwan, Gordeeva/Grinkov, Matt Savoie, and Johnny Weir at their best. Then you might want to take a look at both of Dai Takahashi's and Jeremy Abbott's programs this season. If that doesn't help explain artistry for you, I'm not sure what will.
    But the judges give their scores for the current choreograpy, not for the possible ability, right?

    I do understand what artistry in FS means to me, and it's not Alissa's plastic smile and that irritating shoulder move...As well as soppy is soppy and not "beautiful and lyrical" for everyone but me- "Valse Triste" is "beautiful and lyrical", "La Vie En Rose" is soppy all the way, it's obvious it was made especially for the Worlds, to make the French public like the skater. I'm afraid it will have the opposite effect - the program is way too naive and such a sophisticated public wouls probably like more Shostakovich. I'm sure you know French didn't like Edit Piaf very much, her songs were way too primitive for The French public, and she gain her popularity in US, where people actually liked that kind of light, soppy music with some "French", and thus exotic, feeling to it .

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Mme Le Gougne was especially bored.
    I really didn't want to open this theme again, but, well...

    That's was she said in an official interview, while denying any cheating, saing she was forced to "admit" cheating by some members of Canadian federation and a few more.
    Learn the subject before any sarcastic statements are made.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Small point of fact: the words you attribute to me are not mine but Bruin714's. I agree with you re: Kostner and Czisny (per my previous comments in this thread).
    Oh yes, I'm sorry! I got confused with the quotes here. Will fix it!

  14. #104
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    I like both Alissa's and Carolina's SP. And I love Liza's. I think that already now she expresses the music very well and has tones of charisma.
    I disagree with everyone about Alissa's 'plastic' smile. It is a gorgeous smile. She did not glue it to her face throughout the whole program. It appeared when the music called for it - when it became softer and calmer. It is really hard to satisfy people. When skaters do not smile, you guys complain. When someone does it beautifully during a calming piece of music, it is wrong too....
    I also don't see how is she slow. To me she looks to skate very fast, with a great flow and lightness. But I have not seen her live, so I may be mistaken.

    Quote Originally Posted by LLLLutz View Post
    Remember Sale & Pelletier in 2002 winning the technical scores and losing gold medal in presentation score for their two - three year old program, as soppy and empty as it gets ?
    That's how she will know...
    Well, they had the same program.. Alissa does not keep her programs for 3 seasons. And I guess it is hard to compare Alissa's to S/P. Also because she is far superior to them in terms of interpretation. JMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    Hepburn was regal and sophisticated, yet mischievous and free. I certainly don't remember Hepburn having a O_____O look on her face for an entire film.
    Well, a film is not a competition. They do differ. You dont perform against the others to win. Also, you can repeat the scenes zilion times.
    I do not expect Czisny to be tip top Hepburn. I expect her to interpret the music and convey the atmosphere of the music. And she does that. Also the O_____O look is an exaggeration. She looks more confident now.

    When it comes to Carolina's SP - it is different and original. Full of music nuances. In general she interprets it quite well. But there is few moves in which she tries to channel 'sexi', which together with some posing is off-putting and does not match the overall quality of the program.

    I still have to warm up to Kanako.
    Helgesson - it was one of her few skates that I actually enjoyed. To me, no matter what music she selects, she always skates the same. Could she also do something to her hair?? She is such a pretty girl, but this old lady hair style makes me cringe...
    Last edited by Kinga; 11-19-2011 at 06:10 AM.

  15. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by LLLLutz View Post
    I really didn't want to open this theme again, but, well...

    That's was she said in an official interview, while denying any cheating, saing she was forced to "admit" cheating by some members of Canadian federation and a few more.
    Learn the subject before any sarcastic statements are made.
    The "scandal" is a really fishy topic.

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