I totally agree. Chan was the rightful winner in my mind.Originally Posted by mot
I totally agree. Chan was the rightful winner in my mind.
Joubert did deserve a solid lead after the SP (although the downgrade rules back then were too harsh, so I don't think they objectively should have been separated as much as they were) but honestly Takahashi's PCS alone in the LP deserved to more than cover the gap, IMO. Then we have to add in that Takahashi had more technical merit in his LP as well. It's a pretty clear case for me.
Yeah, Lambiel's jump content in the SP was quite poor. In terms of the spins, footwork, and program it was still superb, though, so that helps.
It's difficult to gauge between both programs because Lambiel's LP performance was tremendously masterful. I honestly think his PCS should have been 15 points higher than Joubert's LP performance...that's really huge. Lambiel's tech was better than Joubert's as well. Even though he had more mistakes, his jump layout was more difficult, the spins were infinitely better, and the footwork was better.
It really would suck for Joubert to place 1st in the SP and do relatively well in the LP and then be overtaken by someone who had such a flawed SP, but if I'm scoring the numbers accurately that's really how I probably would have had it in the end (it would definitely be close). Joubert gave a lackluster performance with a lackluster program, despite being clean, and Lambiel delivered one of the best performances ever.
It is NOT easier to achieve Level 4 footwork now than it was in 2006 when Plushenko did it. In fact, it is much more difficult today to get Level 4 footwork than it was in 2006 when Plushenko did it. The requirements for Level 4 footwork and spins have become increasingly more difficult since CoP was introduced.
Interestingly enough. You never hear anything but praise from Chans competitors about his skating. Now take Nan Song. Great jumps. Good edges. He watches Chan and sees that it is possible if he works hard on pcs's to improve his performance. New choreographer. Hard work. Now the landscape is changing.
Last edited by havefun; 11-21-2011 at 07:48 AM.
Except for Takahashi, I think that is a cute answer cause I thought Buttercup meant contemporary skaters, otherwise Dick Button wins them all!
Last edited by seniorita; 11-21-2011 at 08:25 AM.
No it was Takahashi before Evan.
Are you certain? Evan did it at the 2007-8 GPF, and I must say that I can't recall Dai landing many 4-3s before or after that. I do believe Dai was one of the first skaters to get a level 4, if not the first.
That won't work. The result will be rewarding the more technical skaters who are probably artistically blind. Skaters like Song will be winning a lot more times over Patrick Chan, and skaters like Takahashi and Kozuka will have no chance to win what so ever. Is that what you wanted? That'll truly be called "jumping competitions".
That is supposed or intended to be because without those hard jumps, Kevin's programs had little to offer. Both Kevins. Especially Reynolds. I know you meant VDP. VDP was slow. I mean SLOW. He's amazing having been able to stay on the upper layer of the elite skaters for so long, but that was where he's supposed to be, not higher.
I'm interested in where you get this number and the idea?
One need to study closely on PCS scores before reach the conclusion about "fixed PCS". Where the number 50% came from? PCS is only 30%.
Which in turn proved that the judges did have valuable training and skillfully giving out the results in a few minutes. Chan's scores in relation to the rest of the field were largely justified under current system.
ETA:
Walking on both edges would guarantee not to fall. Is that called skilled? Chan was pushing the edge limits all the time. I'd say his falls were rare, very rare in fact, with the deep edges he's been exercising in his entire programs. Should we penalize the falls (I mean other than one point deduction from the fall) to reduce the boundary pushing on footworks? I don't think so.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-21-2011 at 10:24 AM.
I am pretty sure that PCSs are, by intention, 50% of the total, sometimes more or less depending on the skater and the performance.
In this contest (LP) it was
Chan : TES 72.30, PCS 85.14
Song: TES 79.93, PCS 67.64
Rippon: TES 70.04, PCS 74,80.
I think that the PCS multipliers for men and for women are designed to keep this 50-50 ratio as close as possible.
Ooops! Thanks! Mathman! Go to sit in the corner and timeout myself, then go to study more about PCS.
I think he said the 4F was easier on his bad knee than the 4T....I think he just wants to do the quad flip. Who wouldn't?
I thought we were talking about who got level 4, and I remember that Daisuke and Plushenko got level 4 in the season of Torino Olys, the first in Sl and the other in Ci. You meant who landed a 4-3 and a level 4?
Well, that's what makes it hard, isn't it? To do both in the same program... clearly Plushy was the true pioneer when it came to quads and footwork, and his place in history must be acknowledged!
Doris mentioned once that the first American skater to get a level 4 on footwork was Charlie White when he was still skating singles, but I don't know if it was in an international competition.
Great twisting turning thread.
I agree with whoever said the best skaters are the best PCS skaters and they should win. I don't want FS to be just a jumping contest, and I'm glad Chan beat Song.
I think what I want is for Chan and his team to stop trying to crush, rather than just defeat, the competition. One quad or 4-3 is fine in this field, he doesn't need two. If he thins out his programs just a little we'll see him with fewer falls and his winning programs (and scores) will be universally applauded. This is exactly what happened with Carolina, for different reasons of course. Plus, there would be a trickle down effect as other skaters will generally do just enough to try to win. I don't want to see a whole comp turn into a splatfest either.
I'm really puzzled as to why Patrick would keep his program intact when skating sick.
It seems Patrick is skating for the record books and to be dominant, not just winning. But the result is mixed. I love the guy but I want to see him skating clean!
Maybe there should be a COP "clean skate" bonus.
To conclude my COP soapbox, I'll add parenthetically that I would like to see whatever has caused the current rash of one-footed footwork changed. A little of it goes a long way for me.
Whoever listed the areas that Patrick is not the best in forgot the flying sit. (Still
I believe in the near future, China will rise in singles skating. Chinese take everything seriously. Any area they are behind, they'd study and aim the best in the world and invest at all cost and work hard to fill that gap.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks