The point is not to stop Patrick from winning. The point is to come up with a scoring system that is more in tune with our intuition about what constitutes a good skating performance.
It's not just this one skater. I have some (not all) sympathies with PoodlePal (maybe in part because I'm a "poodle pal" too!). I'm wondering if the additive nature of COP is to blame. As long as the score rewards "more," skaters will add all they can, even to the point of "more" than they can handle. Hence the falls.
And I'm not denying that beautiful programs have come out of COP. Jeremy's and Daisuke's programs alone this season are proof of that. Choreographers can be geniuses. But you have to wade through a lot of dullness and mistakes to get to those beauties.
And I'm not denying that beautiful programs have come out of COP. Jeremy's and Daisuke's programs alone this season are proof of that. Choreographers can be geniuses. But you have to wade through a lot of dullness and mistakes to get to those beauties.
The point is not to stop Patrick from winning. The point is to come up with a scoring system that is more in tune with our intuition about what constitutes a good skating performance.
Just watched Chan. Thinking about the other men. Dai Abbott etc. It looks like everyone is designing programs including Chan to push the envelope technically and pcs wise. This has to be good for the sport right? Playing it safe as a male skater doesn't seem to be a winning strategy anymore. Apart from the jumps some of the moves, edges and performing are awesome.
Before Chan, it was either quads or footwork.
As to Chan, I notice that he did a 3A in the SP, but not in the FS, whereas Song, who also executed a 4T and a 4T+3T, was brave enough to include a 3A in his FS. A male champion should be brave enough not to have to choose between attempting quad jumping and attempting the triple axel. He should be brave enough to try both in the same free programme.
I went and rewatched it. For me, it's off from the get go. Watch his opening move. It's a simple, elegant maneuver that signifies his intention: calm speed, controlled passion. At the Japan Open and SC, it's startlingly fast and surprisingly expressive. At TEB, it's less so (full disclosure: I have HD video of the JO and SC performances, but not of the TEB). But the double axel was wonky, of course and the fall during the footwork devastating. At that point, he fell behind the music and struggled to catch up. The death drop spin, so wonderful when timed with the flourish and generally so huge, was less so here. Now, I will say I understated his fight. Landing the triple loop, with that brief entry, was impressive (the loop is his second weakest jump, after the triple axel). He clearly put all of himself into those quads. It's not the worst he's ever skated, but it felt like it.
I agree with you: this program is a masterpiece. I truly believe that when skated clean, I will consider it one of the all time great programs (according to me).
SF, I want him to be bored with "Take Five," actually. I want him to stop keeping programs (and I want him to explore other choreographers, but whatever).
I'm sure skaters like Stephane Lambiel and pre-knee injury Daisuke Takahashi, both of whom had quads and excellent footwork, would beg to differ.
Then there would not have been the Olympic controversy. And some Worlds controveries. They had not been able to do both well in the same program. It wasn't necessary then. Some one, like Joubert, would win with quads and some, like Buttle, would win with skating. Takahashi won without a quad.
I sometimes appreciate Chan's flawed performance more on replay than live because his errors tend to be perceived in exageration by fans taken back by unexpected mistakes and by distractors ready to magnify them.
Poeta was a magnificent program, and while Stephane never skated it completely mistake-free, I kind of use it to this day as a measuring stick for skaters' scores - that got higher PCS than Poeta? Better IN?Different rules/requirements at the time, different step sequences. But the quality is still evident even today. Lambiel's Poeta step sequence, in my mind, is one of the most memorable step sequences ever. Takahashi's step sequence in in his Phantom sent the audience in near-complete hysterics when he finished--I watched it live on TV in 2007 and I still remember how it sent chills up my spine.
Also, I never said the impact of Chan's 2011 Worlds win was re-writing history. He skated magnificently and deserved the world title by a country mile; I'm sure it pushed many skaters to up their level of skating. My original objection was to your statement "Before Chan, it was either quads or footwork," which, as I pointed out, was inaccurate given what Lambiel and Takahashi had accomplished long before Chan added the quad to his repertoire of elements.
I would be curious to see if SF feels there is any area in which any skater is superior to Patrick Chan (not including spirals, which he doesn't do).
So true! It took me three times rewatching his TEB LP before I reached my conclusion which I have posted in response to Pogue's first post regarding this performance.