As I have expressed before, my thought is that PCS does resemble 6.0 in that there is a definitive ceiling on each mark, thus necessitating comparisons/ordinals. TES ceiling is more flexible and complicated to reach as it depends on elements executed, their BV, and GOE received. Judges are not deciding on the marks by comparing skaters on a holistic manner but are focusing on grading the performances of individual elements. With the tech panel making qualifying calls, the Total Scores are really not completely the judges' responsibilty or in their control. However, PCS are more than just ordinals in the PC but the marks themselves are important because they are added to form the Total Scores.
A bit too late for comments but I finally watched Rippon and Brezina's LPs.
Adam's skating was beautiful for sure. But his strokes were laboured. That has become part of his style. Didn't correct them at very young, now it's difficult to correct them. Oh, well, he and his fans might not think that was a problem. But to me, that makes his skating heavy, not as pretty as his look. Good that he has the guts to put in 4Lz every time.
Where was Brezina's quad that he blamed his coach for not letting him put in at SA? Generally, I like his skating style. He skated cautiously and some spins were very slow. The final spin was ugly.
I reviewed Javier Fernandez's SP and LP from Skate Canada 2011. First of all, I need to correct your perception that Fernandez skated with more speed in the SP vs. his LP, that turned out to be untrue. Here are the clips I used:But sometimes, I see big jumps in certain aspects of PCS within the same competition, and not just in more flexible things like PE and IN, which are more tethered to how a skater performed that day. I'm talking about things like Javier Fernandez at Skate Canada this year, when his SS mark jumped from 7.68 to a considerable 8.14 within the span of 24 hours from the SP to LP, yet I saw no clear improvements in this regard within the 24-hour timespan, and if I recall correctly, Fernandez actually skated with more speed and flow in the SP. I noticed this same phenomenon also happens when a lower-tiered skater unexpectedly makes the final group of a competition.
How is this justified?
Javier Fernandez SC 2011 SP
Javier Fernandez SC 2011 FS
Right from the top, Fernandez flew across the ice in his FS, demonstrating far better flow and effortless glide than he did in the SP. More specifically, let's breakdown the various criteria of SS and see what are the differences between his SP and FS.
1) Balance/rhythm/precision: Pretty much the same between the two programs, this is an area where Javier needs to demonstrate a greater confidence in his ability to create beautiful patterns on ice. He comes across as somewhat tentative whenever he starts to execute complicate steps and slows down considerably and carries less flow. Precision of his skating should improve as he gains more mileage; right now, they look new and he looks cautious. Suggested Score: 6.75
2) Flow/Speed: Edge to his FS. The design of his SP, while entertaining to see, failed to showcase Fernandez's respectably powerful glide. Although well skated, it makes it hard from a judging standpoint to reward an aspect that was not clearly shown. Given his general cautiousness when executing intricate connecting steps, there were relatively few occasions to properly assess his flow & speed in the SP whereas his FS properly displayed his ability in this area beyond doubt. Suggested Score: SP = 6.50 LP = 7.75
3) Cleaness/Sureness/Edge Quality: Edge to his FS. It can be hard to dissociate technical errors on elements when evaluating PCS but it must. Despite the name cleaness/sureness, this has actually nothing to do with falling or stepping out of an element (e.g. jump). Rather, this criterion looks at the sureness and depth of the skater's edges. Javier Fernandez's edge quality still requires some improvement. Judging him as though he is an Ice Dancer, it is noted that his edge is not very secure at times and lacks a bit of depth. However, his FS was designed in a way that gave him more chances to demonstrate cleaner running edges than his SP. The fact that a FS is much longer than a SP often gives skaters more opportunity to demonstrate skills that they otherwise didn't have time to show in a packed SP, hence, quite often, the PCS will go up in the FS vs. SP. Suggested Score: SP = 6.75 LP = 7.25
4) Variety in power/acceleration: Edge to his FS. Javier showcased relatively few variety in his overall skating quality during his SP where the power and mostly, acceleration, remains at mostly same level. This is however considerably better in his LP where there were more clearly defined different levles throughout the different parts of his FS. Suggested Score: SP = 6.50 LP = 7.75
5) Multi directional skating: About the same between the two programs. There were some changes of direction in his skating but they tend to remain in the same direction most of the time. This is an area that Javier can significantly improve as well. While his performance are entertaining to watch, from the perspective of a sport as opposed to a show, he needs to show a greater ability to skate in unpredicted directions with more changes than he currently does. Suggested Score: 7.00
6) Skating on one foot: Edge to his SP. The composition of his SP is more intricate and showcased some very interesting use of turns and steps throughout his performance. His FS continues to demonstrate an above average use of connecting steps and skating on one foot but overall, slightly less intricate than his SP. Suggested Score: SP = 8.25 LP = 8.00
All things considered, I would give him Skating Skills score of 7.00 in the SP and 7.50 for his LP. The panel averaged to about 0.50 of difference as well which seems just about right to me.
I hope this helps.
Last edited by wallylutz; 11-23-2011 at 04:54 PM.
Thank you for taking the time to break that down, wallylutz, I really, really appreciate it. Just a wondering about something though. You mentioned that the panel averaged to about 0.50 of difference to your scores (which, to be honest, I personally agreed with more than the actual averaged marks given to Javier), and that was OK. So I was guess if Javier averaged 6.50 in the SP and 7.00 in the LP for SS by the judging panel, that would be ok too. This seems a bit strange to me as this a rather broad range of acceptable marks, especially since it refers to numbers that are averaged.
Also, I was wondering about people like judges #3 and #7, who gave Javier a 8.75, or judge #1, who gave a 8.50, all considerably above the 0.50 difference. Do they get written up after the competition?
Just because he starts his Long Program with quicker movements, that doesn't mean he is showing superior ability to create flow and effortless glide. If you pay attention, he creates very good flow and effortless glide after the opening stationary steps in his Short Program.
Men's short program skating skills: Mean = 6.98514, Standard Deviation = 0.82103
Men's long program skating skills: Mean = 7.02405, Standard Deviation = 0.84173
p = 0.35025
Women's short program skating skills: Mean = 6.41128, Standard Deviation = 0.70831
Women's long program skating skills: Mean = 6.57821, Standard Deviation = 0.75841
p = 0.01736
Conclusions: The difference in SS scores between men's short and long is statistically insignificant, although it is significant for women (about 0.16 difference).
Last edited by skatinginbc; 11-24-2011 at 08:14 PM.
A trivia: All three Men on TEB podium were born in the same year.
Brezina - March 30,1990
Song - August 9, 1990
Chan - December 31, 1990
Also, all TEB 2011 champions are exactly the same as at SC.
I agree with Jettasian. Bringing up Chan's "holier than thou edges" sounds sarcastic--simply a bad joke.