Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 97

Thread: Free Dance, Sat. 11/19 at 2:30 pm EST

  1. #76
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    It is worth mentioning that one of the B. Eurosport guys noted that they wouldn't get level fours on the pattern dance due to errors on the twelvth step in each pattern

  2. #77
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    989
    Anissina has no pull with the Russian Fed since she "defected" to France to win Olympic gold, however, she is a personality in the tabloids now that she is back living in Russia and could affect general audience reaction against American skaters in general - back to the old "cold war" type of thinking. Of course the Russian Fed will do all they can to push Bobrova & Soloviev, so we will see what happens at Cup of Russia this week.

  3. #78
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,367
    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Anissina has no pull with the Russian Fed since she "defected" to France to win Olympic gold, however, she is a personality in the tabloids now that she is back living in Russia and could affect general audience reaction against American skaters in general - back to the old "cold war" type of thinking. Of course the Russian Fed will do all they can to push Bobrova & Soloviev, so we will see what happens at Cup of Russia this week.
    Anyone who followed reports in the North American media around the time of the Vancouver Olympics would have seen the exact same thing. I won't rehash the Inman e-mail mess, but the criticism of Plushenko before and after the event was way over the top, and some of the stuff about DomShabs was far uglier than their OD costumes.

    The Russian Fed will do what they can to push B/S because that's their current no. 1 dance team. Just as Skate Canada will push V/M, and USFSA will push D/W, and the FFSG will push P/B. We'll see who skates best - and who politics best - in a couple of years.

    I have a ton of respect for P/B because they're a team who really had to work their way up the rankings from a fairly low starting point, and improved steadily both as technicians and as performers. Not a lot of teams have the patience and the commitment to keep at it, and not a lot of federations are willing to support such a process these days. I find that to be a wonderful example to younger teams.

  4. #79
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    14,270
    ITA, that P&B are a wonderful example to other teams. And I agree that all federations politick, either more or less effectively for their top teams. In the case of USFS, the politicking of Igor Shpilband is about 50x more effective than the politicking of USFS, who have never given a rusty hoot about ice dance, and have generally been very ineffective. Igor, OTOH, has demonstrated effectiveness.

    The Inman email is one example of the ineffectiveness of USFS connected people-one does not put one's eville intentions in an email for all the world to see, if one is to be effective.

    I don't get what you thought was particularly ugly about the DomShabs's situation that they didn't bring on themselves. They got a sideways exemption for using props that was legal, but rather repugnant. They skated an excellent Tango Romantica (amazing, considering the state of Maxim's knees). They skated a weak FD. And their OD was so wrong in so many ways that it is difficult to count them, although it was clear that some fans of theirs did not understand at all why many people found it objectionable.

    However, it is possible to demonstrate that it was indeed objectionable to some non-fan people, because the British composer of Indian ethnicity who wrote a section of the music they used at Euros was so offended she refused to give them permission to use the music again (and of course, they had never asked her in the first place). That composer was not from North America, and I don't think anyone in the UK thought the Kerrs had a shot for a medal, so I think she qualifies as an uninvoved observer. And the Australian people that the team said the dance was representative of at Europeans registered their unhappiness as well. A great deal of patching had to be done to replace the music, but the DomShabs should have asked the composer first, and they should have consulted an expert in Australian dances if they wanted to be controversy free.

    Granted, a number of American fans thought B&A should have gotten the bronze, but preference for your own team is business as usual, and not particularly ugly, IMO, although some of the ways people express this can be ugly.

    Please explain?
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-22-2011 at 11:42 AM.

  5. #80
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,367
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I agree that all federations politick, either more or less effectively for their top teams. In the case of USFS, the politicking of Igor Shpilband is about 50x more effective than the politicking of USFS, who have never given a rusty hoot about ice dance, and have generally been very ineffective. Igor, OTOH, has demonstrated effectiveness.

    The Inman email is one example of the ineffectiveness of USFS connected people-one does not put one's eville intentions in an email for all the world to see, if one is to be effective.
    I suspect all this is true, especially the part about Igor. But I must say, the Inman e-mail proved to be highly effective.

    I don't get what you thought was particularly ugly about the DomShabs's situation that they didn't bring on themselves. They got a sideways exemption for using props that was legal, but rather repugnant. They skated an excellent Tango Romantica (amazing, considering the state of Maxim's knees). They skated a weak FD. And their OD was so wrong in so many ways that it is difficult to count them, although it was clear that some fans of theirs did not understand at all why many people found it objectionable.
    Well, one example that comes to mind is an American skating journalist who basically wrote that their lead after the CD was evidence of a conspiracy against the NA teams, something that observers couldn't understand, and generally a terrible thing. That was pretty out of line, IMO. I'm fine with criticism of their OD and of course the costumes, but some of it was very over the top, with unpleasant insinuations about the DomShabs on a personal level. Shabalin's post-event comments were taken out of context in some places, to make it appear as though he'd been showing poor sportsmanship. That sort of thing. I'm not a fan of DomShabs (though I am ever grateful to them for introducing me to the Double Life of Veronique score) so I didn't keep close track of what appeared where, but I felt that some journalists cast them in the role of the Evil Russians, and no matter what one thinks of their skating and programs, that was unfair.

    As for the OD, I'll never understand why someone as savvy as Linichuk sabotaged her team in such a way. But treading more carefully, I feel that there is probably greater sensitivity to such displays in some cultures, and I can understand how some people might have found the controversy confusing.

  6. #81
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,254
    Shabalin DID make sour grapes remarks. He said V/M maybe did skate well enough for gold, but that D/W should never have been placed above himself and Domnina.

  7. #82
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    14,270
    Here's a translation of the interview:

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/arch...p/t-73964.html

    : As you had to get used to the Olympic games result. I still find it hard to put into words what do I feel about your placement. I realize with the state of your legs the bronze was the best you could had hoped for. On the other hand it's not for the bronze you went to Vancouver..
    MS: No, not the bronze. Hence I have mixed feelings about the medal. It was a hard thing to get. From that perspective our participating the Olympics is a huge win. But we were going for the gold. We were fighting for the gold.

    V: Really?
    MS: Yes. It became clear we don't have a chance after the Original Dance.

    V: It is probably hard to be objective while in the middle of the competition compared to the outside glance. But let me remark: it was obvious for the outsiders that the first two places will be decided between the Canadians Virtue-Moir and the Americans Davis-White.
    MS: I disagree. Oh yes, the Canadians - they are brilliant and it's obvious, even though am not overwhelmed by their programmes. If Oxana and I didn't have to make changes in the programmes according to my leg's state I don't think Virtue/Moir had a chance to beat us. What the Americans showed doesn't look like and ice dance to me at all. I can only see the kids who are running fast across the ice and do some acrobatics. If I were a judge at the Original I would put them outside the top 3.
    Note that what he is talking about is D&W's Bollywood OD.

    vs his & Oksana's so ice dance Aborigine OD. Here's the Euros version:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vczTP...eature=related

    Here's the GPF version of D&W's Bollywood.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx8vm9m8EDc

    (Olympic videos vanish off youtube)

    I can tell which OD I think looks more like a dance.

  8. #83
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,528
    Inmans email was effective. Two judges gave Plushenko fives in transitions! Only people in the first group got that. Kevin Van Der Perren didn't get any fives. Weir got no fives when he got a three from inman at us nationals. The inman email was one of the more effective politics against any skater at an olympics of all time! The people had stopped judging what was on the ice and just went by inman's email.

  9. #84
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,528
    DW OD was Bollywood movie dance I am not sure about real traditional Indian dance and I beleive there is a difference but his comments are way more true about Davis and White free dance which was not dance at all in any way.

  10. #85
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,367
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Here's a translation of the interview:

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/arch...p/t-73964.html

    (Olympic videos vanish off youtube)

    I can tell which OD I think looks more like a dance.
    This was an interview from June 2010, and I was referring to comments attributed to him at the Olympics, and which where taken out of context. I don't recall Shabalin making any actual unsportsmanlike comments at the Olympics. And he was not the only one whose comments were misrepresented at the time; Massimo Scali also ran into, shall we say, an overzealous reporter, in the mixed zone after the FD. As for the interview itself - Russian interviews are always interesting! Not canned answers there... obviously DomShabs were greatly handicapped by his injury, though I'm sure V/M didn't have an easy time of it health-wise, either. I do kind of wonder what DomShabs' programs would have been like had his knee been in better shape; would they really have done such a ridiculous OD? As for his thoughts about D/W - I can't say I haven't expressed similar opinions at times, though obviously my status is rather different than his. I'm not sure how I feel about it; not everyone's obliged to appreciate D/W, and in addition, he was retired by then; I don't have as big an issue with critical comments when skaters aren't going head to head anymore. That having been said, he probably should have toned it down. BTW, going into the Olympics, there were quite a few comments from several of the men about how they were being underscored, their opponents overscored, their opponents had mediocre programs, the judges had it in for them etc., but I don't recall anything like that in the other disciplines.

    Since this is a post-season and post-retirement interview, it doesn't change my opinion about the media coverage of DomShabs at and immediately after the Olympics. Plushenko and the Inman e-mail are fast approaching dead horse status - if they're not there already - so I won't go there.

    BTW, you can view the the entire dance event - all three segments - on Youtube via the Vancouver Olympics official channel (here's the figure skating playlist, and the direct link to the OD). This channel also has the complete men's event (I refuse to watch that, too traumatizing), the pairs and the gala. Personally, my favorite ODs that season were V/M's and F/S's.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 11-22-2011 at 02:30 PM.

  11. #86
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,646
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    DW OD was Bollywood movie dance I am not sure about real traditional Indian dance and I beleive there is a difference but his comments are way more true about Davis and White free dance which was not dance at all in any way.
    and yet it was a big hit in India...


    NBC is sooooooooooooo biased against the Russians... in 1994 (for CBS) it was the former East Germans... US Media, when it comes to the olympics, is always extremely pro US (makes sense) and in skating's case is always anti-Russia... they all pretty much peed themselves with glee when Russia failed to make the podium in Pairs... I don't think commentators like Besic or Hamilton truly believe in the whole "cold war" mentality, but they want to keep their jobs so they say what they're told... Scott said as much in his book referring to the 1994 olympics. Not the best character trait, but when it's all you've got I can see why you would do just enough to keep the bosses happy... I guess.
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 11-22-2011 at 04:21 PM.

  12. #87
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,528
    Their OD was a big hit in India - it was very reflective of the movie culture and they took it as a compliment!!

    Jan Hoffman is very respected but was bashed as another East German stealing Kerrigan's gold.

    Bezic and Hamilton did not have any use for B/S or T/M. They just loved the Canadians and the Chinese. NBC was just as into S/Z in 2006 as 2010. S/Z got the stories and maybe because S/Z made efforts to`Americanize their choreo.

  13. #88
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    14,270
    Re effectiveness of Inman email:
    Plushenko certainly fell into Inman's narrative by saying of course he had no transitions, though. Hard to argue with the horse's mouth himself.


    Re US commentating:
    OTOH, Dick Button totally adored B&S. And G&G. And for that matter G&P. Ans Shen & Zhao...If some team or skater was having a great performance, Dick was over the moon happy, regardless of country. More over the moon if it were a US skater, but still he wasn't hating on great performances.

    IN fact, that's why with all his verbal gaffes, I still like Dick as a commentator a lot better than Scotty. He has his biases (like for a particular position in the layback versus other positions) but he is not as US-centric as Scotty. Or perhaps NBC is more US-centric today than ABC was in 1988, for example? I'm in no position to know.

    Re: Bollywood
    Yes, taking a representation of your culture as a compliment is such a bad thing At least its a better response than completely angering the people you are trying to represent. Who knows? Maybe some Indian kids will take up ice dance now? You never know.

  14. #89
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,646
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Re US commentating:
    OTOH, Dick Button totally adored B&S. And G&G. And for that matter G&P. Ans Shen & Zhao...If some team or skater was having a great performance, Dick was over the moon happy, regardless of country. More over the moon if it were a US skater, but still he wasn't hating on great performances.

    IN fact, that's why with all his verbal gaffes, I still like Dick as a commentator a lot better than Scotty. He has his biases (like for a particular position in the layback versus other positions) but he is not as US-centric as Scotty. Or perhaps NBC is more US-centric today than ABC was in 1988, for example? I'm in no position to know.
    IIRC Dick was more US centric when on NBC than he was ABC... ABC pushed the US team, but wouldn't deny the other countries their praise... NBC definitely does that. I think of the three big networks that have had the Olympics/Worlds/Figure Skating since I've been around NBC is the most "digusting" in how they push the agenda... CBS comes second, ABC third... Terry Gannon, though, doesn't seem to play by that rule, so we may see a little less anti-everybody else from here on out, I don't know.

  15. #90
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,528
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Re effectiveness of Inman email:
    Plushenko certainly fell into Inman's narrative by saying of course he had no transitions, though. Hard to argue with the horse's mouth himself.

    .
    But that was not reflective of what hapened at the Olympics. The fives came from the email- not what was done in the SP.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •