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Thread: Ladies LP, 11/19/11

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Not good that a 14 year old can win 2 GP competitions right out of the box like this. Says a lot about the other skaters i think.
    Not good that Alissa is the one winning LPs like this either. It says a lot about the state of American skaters.

    Also, how is Alissa getting 7 to 8s for skating skills/transitions/choreography/etc? These are the sort of marks that usually go to Miki Ando, Mao Asada. That's even higher than the marks typically given to Laura Lepisto and Carolina Kostner. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by scriabina View Post
    Yes, I don't doubt she is very nervous and under lots of pressure. But in competitive figure skating, the skaters should be judged on their skate regardless of extraneous issues affecting their skating, no?

    I don't mean to bash Czisny but I'm just really disappointed in how her skating has evolved. And I don't think her coaches look particularly inspiring or stimulating. Look at what they did to poor Jeremy Abbott's jumps, which used to be quite big, and now are tiny a la Czisny's. I'm guessing they must advise their pupils to jump smaller so that they can land their jumps more consistently?
    But I don't think that she did that badly. She looked cautious, but where do you mark that off? IN the protocals, the judges rewarded her in her best elements ( spirals and spins) and gave her hardly any GOE on the jumps, which is right given that they weren't very superior. But she didn't UR them or had bad landings, so I don't think she deserved negative GOE for them.

    And I would beg to differ about Sato/ Dunjgen too. She used to give up when she messed up her jump. See her Nationals 2010 LP for reference. I think they taught her to not give up, which she did not do at either competition this year.

    I think she still has a lot of work to do. They didn't give her a 125+ score, which is what Mao, Miki and Yuna would be receiving. I think the judges know where she is at.

  3. #123
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Actually it is quite meaningless that a 14 year old wins over ladies. Has been done before. Jury is out until post puberty. Just an FYI. It is quite well known in skating circles that these young Russian girls have some funky eating habits going on. Without getting into details...it ain't pretty.

    No sour grapes intended however it can be quite a shock to a childs self esteem, when puberty sets in and their bodies are unable to perform the "tricks" of pre puberty. I am glad the age rules are in place. I would actually prefer to see the age increased. I think it would give these kids time to develop in a healthy way in order to fulfill their long term potential and stay physically and mentally healthy.

    Examples of this overhyped "phenom" scenario - Lipinski, Baiul, Zhang, Meisner......to name but a few.

  4. #124
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    I thought the top 3 were really enjoyable and an interesting study in different strengths and weakness.

    Elizaveta's 3Lz+3T is like butter. You are never afraid she won't land them. Sure, she popped the flip, but you never worry she'll splat. She needs to work on spins, speed and ice coverage, but for a 14 year old, she's got good maturity. I think you have to be crazy to say she has no musical interpretation.

    I think Carolina has my favorite skate. I realize she has the lowest jump content, but everything, aside from that one jump, was so well done, and big and with so much flow. She's skating with so much freedom this season. Skating after Alissa, you could really notice her better speed, jump height and flow. I adore this program.

    Alissa's programs this season are a disappointment. Her spins are amazing, as usual. But the jumps are very tentative and the entire program is setting up for the jumps! No transitions whatsoever. I'm very surprised that she got no downgrades. I do like how she fought for the program, however. But I would have had her 3rd in the LP.
    Last edited by oleada; 11-19-2011 at 02:32 PM.

  5. #125
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    So Carlo get win silver with only two 2S, 1 T and 1 Lo??? Oh dear.... too bad Tuv is still young to compete for world, Would be great to see wonder kid blows the ladies field away.

  6. #126
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    As for 14 year olds winning, I think that if it's a skater you like, it means the 14 year old is soooo talented and bound to be the next big thing. If it's someone you don't like, it's bad judging and shows how poor the field is.

    At least that's how it feels anyway. :lol:

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    Examples of this overhyped "phenom" scenario - Lipinski, Baiul, Zhang, Meisner......to name but a few.
    Oh Carolina Zhang and Kimmie Meissner ... I don't think I'll ever get over those two.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post

    Examples of this overhyped "phenom" scenario - Lipinski, Baiul, Zhang, Meisner......to name but a few.
    Mao, Yuna, Michelle, Sasha ..also.
    And the first two you mentioned are OC , hype and all.

    Jammers with all your being 14 Liza, I m sure you will have NO problem with 15 year old Adelina crashing the field and winning COR next week. (I wish I wish!!!)
    Last edited by seniorita; 11-19-2011 at 02:34 PM.

  9. #129
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Trust me Oleada.....seen this "next big thing" too often, over the last 20 years to be impressed by a prepubescent body doing monkey tricks around the ice. I reserve judgement on any skater until they have developed into a lady.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    Trust me Oleada.....seen this "next big thing" too often, over the last 20 years to be impressed by a prepubescent body doing monkey tricks around the ice. I reserve judgement on any skater until they have developed into a lady.
    Fine by you. Not that I was talking specifically to you in the first place (it was a general you). I, on the other hand, will choose to enjoy the skating that's going on now rather than speculating they won't make it.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartek View Post
    Slutskaya crushed Mao at Cup of China with something like 20 points and Liza won both of her GPs so at this point she's better than Mao.
    ..Or, rather, Irina was way better at that event than Alissa and Caro were here. She scored almost 20 points more than Liza did at her first event. Of course it's difficult to compare across the competitions, since the scoring system has changed so much since then, but back then Ira was pretty much "it" for the judges.

    Actually, I see a lot of similarities between Liza and Mao - in her debut year Mao had the same spunky, fearless, exuberant style (even similar neon orange dresses ) and back then she was considered an exceptional jumper. The flaws in Mao's jumping technique weren't generally recognized until later - which is a shame, because had she, like Liza, grown up in a system that awarded correct technique, she could've avoided the "growing pains" that troubled her in the Olympic and pre-Olympic seasons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers
    Not good that a 14 year old can win 2 GP competitions right out of the box like this. Says a lot about the other skaters i think.
    Well, in this case, the judges seemed perfectly willing to award Alissa and Caro winning scores if only they stood up on their jumps. The final result was pretty close, desite the older girls not being at their best. Nerves, or trying not to peak too soon? We'll see at GPF, I guess.

  12. #132
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    The breakdown

    Jumps:
    Liza 47.96
    Alissa 39.60
    Mae Bernice 38.44
    Carolina 36.62
    Kanako 34.70
    Yretha 32.67
    Viktoria 31.21
    Lena 30.21
    Sonia 27.68

    Non-jump elements
    Alissa 20.46
    Carolina 19.35
    Viktoria 17.38
    Kanako 16.96
    Liza 15.70
    Sona 15.31
    Yretha 14.93
    Mae Bernice 13.43
    Lena 12.93

    I think this explains why Alissa won the LP pretty well. While Liza had an 8.36 advantage in jumps, Alissa made it up in a combination of her non-jump elements and her PCS. If Liza works on her non-jump elements she will be in the 125+ range.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-19-2011 at 02:42 PM.

  13. #133
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    OC .... Followed up by Baiul - rehab for alcoholism when reality kicked in. Lipinski.....hip replacement, never to be able to skate again as a result of overuse on developing growth plates. Yep...quite the recipe for a healthy future. Not to add they may be the least celebrated Olympic champions in the sport.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    OC .... Followed up by Baiul - rehab for alcoholism when reality kicked in. Lipinski.....hip replacement, never to be able to skate again as a result of overuse on developing growth plates. Yep...quite the recipe for a healthy future. Not to add they may be the least celebrated Olympic champions in the sport.
    Or, you know, Kim, Kwan and Slutskaya, who all were successful juniors who had amazing senior careers and seem to be doing very well off-ice too.

  15. #135
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    I think people ought to take things one competition/one season at a time. Right now Liza is doing well. Good for her. Her jump technique is second to none. Her confidence is amazing.

    But is she perfect? No. As I pointed out in my score breakdown, while totally crushing the competition in jumps, she's actually not superior in non-jump elements, and one could argue is just average (given that she was in the top of the bottom half). That is why she has lost the LP both times to two skaters who have strength in part/or all of that arena.

    What wil hold the future as she grows older. Nobody knows. She is just Liza.

    But for now, two wins in the GP is something to be proud of.

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