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Thread: Ladies LP, 11/19/11

  1. #196
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    I didnt know this was approved by Mr Button, but thank you for replying. Still I think the long set up with her hands as holding a ball always disrupt the flow of the program, and have not much to do with the music she skates to and basically ruin also the choreo.
    You can almost see it in the first frame of this (Dick Button's triple loop).

    http://skatingdomo.files.wordpress.c...uttonloop1.gif

    Here is "first arm position" in ballet.

    http://dance.about.com/od/ballet/ss/Arm_Positions_2.htm

    For jumping in ice skating, I think the idea is that this arm position helps you keep your shoulders parallel to the ice and rotating together, or something like that.

    As for jumps that come out of nowhere, I don't think Alissa is capable of doing that. I think she is doing the best she can by long, deliberate approaches. It does adversely affect the choreography, but not as much as a bad under-rotation and fall.

  2. #197
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Watching Elizaveta is like watching Tara Lipinski & Mao Asada when they first hit the senior scene, though without the bad jumping technique of Tara. Such potential, but needs seasoning & maturity, not a natural in that department.

    And I hate the extraneous use of her arms; she could learn a thing or two by watching how Alissa uses her arms, less is more. Back ramrod straight, perfect carriage, arms in a balletic attitude position. Not hunched over, mule kick, et al, like some skaters (aka Kanako for one).
    I agree re: her arms. This no doubt sounds really nit-picky to anyone not a dancer/dance-lover, but the way Eliza bends her elbows and wrists is horrendous. That alone stops me from enjoying her performances. She has amazing talent, though. I just wish she'd fix that.

  3. #198
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    This may sound silly but what determines who makes it to GPF? The British commentator said Alissa "may" make it... How do we know if she does or not?

    BTW I think Alissa is getting screwed against Carolina. Alissa is doing 3z and amazing spins... I just don't think when both skaters are "on," that Carolina should be beating Alissa.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazydreamer View Post
    I agree re: her arms. This no doubt sounds really nit-picky to anyone not a dancer/dance-lover, but the way Eliza bends her elbows and wrists is horrendous. That alone stops me from enjoying her performances. She has amazing talent, though. I just wish she'd fix that.
    Uhh there are more than ONE type of skating and style you know.

    She is doing Besame Mucho, a spanish/latin program, and here are some arm movements for Flamenco dance form (as her costume implies)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W6BZl8CcfA

    I on the other hand would love Alissa doing a Latin program like this and hopefully finally let her hair down instead of sticking to the same old routine and style.

    Less is more only if you have more in the first place, and i have yet to see more from Alissa. (As lovely as she is already)


    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    This may sound silly but what determines who makes it to GPF? The British commentator said Alissa "may" make it... How do we know if she does or not?

    BTW I think Alissa is getting screwed against Carolina. Alissa is doing 3z and amazing spins... I just don't think when both skaters are "on," that Carolina should be beating Alissa.
    People are surprised by this? She is Carolina
    Last edited by os168; 11-19-2011 at 11:51 PM.

  5. #200
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    This may sound silly but what determines who makes it to GPF? The British commentator said Alissa "may" make it... How do we know if she does or not?

    BTW I think Alissa is getting screwed against Carolina. Alissa is doing 3z and amazing spins... I just don't think when both skaters are "on," that Carolina should be beating Alissa.
    Well there is still one more competition, but in general a 1st and a 3rd gets you into the GPF.

    Here's the breakdown so far:

    Liza 30
    Carolina 28
    Akiko 28
    Alissa 26
    Mirai 20
    Ashley 20
    ____________
    Alena 20

    Mao (13) and Adelina (11) are to skate next week. Mao can get in with a gold (28) silver (26) or bronze (24). Fourth is a possiblity too depending on how others place. (22). Adelina will get a shot with a podium finish (26 for gold; 24 for silver; 22 for bronze)

    Alena is also a factor because she has a bronze. If she wins she will have 26, silver 24, bronze 22.

    I would say that Alissa is likely in.

  6. #201
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Alissa has clinched a spot in the GPF

    Possible scenarios:

    Alena (26)
    Mao (26)
    Adelina (22)

    Alena (26)
    Adelina (24)
    Mao (24)

    Mao (28)
    Alena (24)
    Adelina (22)

    Mao (28)
    Adelina (24)
    Alena (22)

    Adelina (26)
    Mao (26)
    Alena (22)

    Adelina (26)
    Alena (24)
    Mao (24)

    Alissa stays in the top 6 in all of those scenarios

  7. #202
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    well first of all congrats to all the top podium winners

    and regarding the Liza debates, well I don't think its hype because she is indeed showing good results
    although she has many detractors, I'll just post some constructive criticisms,

    her jump technique is very solid all she needs to is to improve in her technicality aspect and the spins
    although what bothers me if she will stay with her current height ? I know Liza's parents aren't really that tall
    either, she belongs to a native Volga-Finnic Russian people and I believe she is also part tatar and they
    tend to be shorter than the average Slavic Russian, but this is going to be a disadvantage if she is will
    never grow at least 2in , she might not be able to get improvement on her jumps which is already very good
    but power for other technicalities which she needs , spins for instant which is her weak spot now. if she gains a few pounds
    with her current height she will have problems already not just with her jumps ,like wght tends to impact like other
    prospects Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu etc.

    Maybe Elizaveta had her growth spurt but shorter ? lol
    but compare her to say Adelina, who has beaten her at juniors comp.
    Adelina had her 1st growth spurt around 2009 and after that she regained her no. 1 position and still again beat Liza
    Adelina is currently on her 2nd growth spurt cycle which for sure she will survive again, I think she'll continue growing
    until 2012 . Adelina imo, will be the best/better in the long run amongst all the new skaters has a+also, huge jumps all she needs is improve her
    jumping techniques which is her weak spot which causes her to also sometimes to make flutz, then she'll avoid
    the inconsistencies that happened to Carolina Kostner.

    Cup of Russia is Next week.? excited to see Mao and Adelina
    Adelina avoiding her nervousness like from her debut at Cup of China, A better healed injury and with superb performance again, she may beat Mao
    while saying that , still will get Mao hopefully to GPF of course.

    Congrats again to all the participants and winners of TEB !

  8. #203
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    It's so cute how Alissa wished Carolina "Good Luck" before Carolina went out on the ice.

    Slutskaya & Cohen wouldn't have done that, those two angry *****
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-20-2011 at 07:43 AM.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I wouldn't say Mao's jumps were superior to Elizaveta's. Mao had a toe axel, no 3salchow, a severe 3 flutz, and her 3flip technique was not great. Presentation wise, skating skills wise yes. But jumps no and its jumps that are most likely to go in puberty.
    Here is Mao as a young (15 yo) phenom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juC7sAi80yU
    I loved this program and think she was a deserving winner. Such joy and youthful exuberance. As we now know, it has been a much harder road for Mao than anyone predicted back in 2005. Only now does she seem to be re-discovering the spark she had as a young teenager. There is no way to predict where Elizaveta will end up, except to say that, barring injury, she is likely to be a major force in ladies figure skating for the next several years, just as Mao was, despite all her problems.

  10. #205
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    Mao has been fortunate to have the body type (similar to Yuna) that kept her long and narrow hipped. Translating to minimal loss in rotational speed upon growth. This likely allowed her to stay competitive. It is difficult to predict how the body will grow.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    You can almost see it in the first frame of this (Dick Button's triple loop).

    http://skatingdomo.files.wordpress.c...uttonloop1.gif

    Here is "first arm position" in ballet.

    http://dance.about.com/od/ballet/ss/Arm_Positions_2.htm

    For jumping in ice skating, I think the idea is that this arm position helps you keep your shoulders parallel to the ice and rotating together, or something like that.

    As for jumps that come out of nowhere, I don't think Alissa is capable of doing that. I think she is doing the best she can by long, deliberate approaches. It does adversely affect the choreography, but not as much as a bad under-rotation and fall.
    I was watching a Janet Lynn video (one of the "Afternoon of a Faun" versions), and I noticed that her arm positions were similar to the one we're describing. I wonder whether her approach served as an inspiration for Yuka as she was coaching Alissa.

    Math, when you used the expression "jumps that come out of nowhere," the person who flashed through my mind was Kurt. I had just watched his "Casablanca" and "Singin' in the Rain" programs. There aren't many wizards like that around, are there. John Curry wrote about training jumps with Gus Lussi and said that he was given a tiny patch of ice to jump on in order to learn how not to telegraph. He did develop the skill, but I don't know whether Alissa has it in her. I'm just happy she's staying on her feet long enough for us to appreciate the other excellences in her program, mainly the spins and delivery. Maybe more will come later, but I'm thankful for what she gives us right now.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Maybe more will come later, but I'm thankful for what she gives us right now.
    Me too. I am so glad she decided to give it at least another year. Alissa has a lot left to give the skating world.

  13. #208
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    After watching her long yesterday. It almost appears her strategy was just to get thru the long and rotate the jumps in order to ensure qualifying for GPF. Maybe she will go for broke in the final. Her short was maybe her worst performance in over a year? It was great she didn't come undone and a testament to her confidence building.
    Last edited by havefun; 11-20-2011 at 01:26 PM.

  14. #209
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    I have to admit that I thought Mirai was pretty much finish growing at that point. Well I thought she might grow a lil more but not as much as she has. She paints a different picture on the ice for me now. It's not the same.
    My point was that Mirai's perfromances in Vancouver were one of the highlights of the Olys for me and at the time I wasnt thinking what if Mirai grows a meter more tall in the future. I just enjoyed a lot what she did there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As for jumps that come out of nowhere, I don't think Alissa is capable of doing that. I think she is doing the best she can by long, deliberate approaches. It does adversely affect the choreography, but not as much as a bad under-rotation and fall.
    You are right, and of course she must do what is best for her, she is hardly the only skater that telegraphs, her arm position was just something I hadnt noticed to anyone else.

  15. #210
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I think this pic is very very cute

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