Ladies LP, 11/19/11 | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Ladies LP, 11/19/11

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Sixteen is very different from fourteen. During those years a skaters body can completely change over one season. Mirai was also never hailed as the next big thing.

:rofl:

Hm..have you lived under a figure skating rock? Mirai was U.S. champion at age 14. And everyone thought she was going to lead the U.S. Women into the next Olympic cycle.

But I guess Mirai just further supports your argument. Bleh.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Lets wait until next year when Liza has grown and see if she can still give those amazing performances.

She may or she may not, but what has either case got to do with her ability today? If she can't do something in the future, does it negate what she does today? She may become even more amazing or she may struggle, should her medals be recinded for future failure or retroactively awarded only if she is still able to do them in a future year? Should today's success not count unless repricated in the future? If it is absurd to have such rules, or attitude, for an older skater, it's equally absurd to have them for a young one.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Mao had her jump technique issues from the beginning but got in trouble only when thet started calling Urs and e. It is not her growth that hit.
GPF will be awesome this year, with Caro, Alissa , Akiko and probably Mao and Adelina, nobody hypes Liza to win with those skaters alltogether. So far her press conferences are nice, she wanted to make the gpf this season, so all well.

Lets wait until next year when Liza has grown and see if she can still give those amazing performances.

^or just comment on this thread for what it is, the 2011 TEB competition. They say that by 12/2012 earth will be destroyed. GPF 2012 wont be held probably.
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Sixteen is very different from fourteen. During those years a skaters body can completely change over one season. Mirai was also never hailed as the next big thing.



Oh, and you are wrong about that. Every single person's body changes at different times. Actually, your body can change when you go 12-13 or 13-14 as much as 16-17. At the same time, it is possible for a person's body type to never dramatically change.

Everyone is playing the "if" game. "Well, you wait and see if she grows a whole foot and gets 90 pounds fatter and THEN she won't be able to jump like a 'bat out of hell'." Seriously? Don't get bitter when a person deservingly wins a competition.

Plus the "well-trained monkey" thing... There are many people much older than Liza who look a lot like trained monkeys. That does not necessarily have to do with age. A skater may be 20 or older and look completely unnatural in any of their movements.
 

havefun

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Alll correct. The fact is and always will be that she is well trained 14 year old prebuscent skater. Nothing more. Nothing less. In this sport I believe that means very little. Time will tell.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
^or just comment on this thread for what it is, the 2011 TEB competition. They say that by 12/2012 earth will be destroyed. GPF 2012 wont be held probably.

end of the world won't happen till December of '12, right? so maybe skating fans will all get along on that day and that's what will cause the end of the world.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Huh. I would think being well trained would mean a lot in figure skating. Having good technique could well help Eliza survive puberty - at least she'll be in a better shape to confront it than, say Caroline Zhang. I personally thought she was wonderfully expressive and musical for someone so young. Also, she had a determined and focused look on her face that was reminiscent of Michelle Kwan. I really enjoyed her performance and I sure hope she continues to do well. It's fun to have a new lady to get excited about these days.

I also enjoyed Carolina today. I thought she put a lot more into her performance this time than Alissa.... Congrats to the top three!
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
In this sport I believe that means very little.

I disagree. It may mean very little to you, but it means a lot to the skater.

Winning a gold medal in the Grand Prix is cool whatever your age. You seem to be saying that any little 14-year-old monkey can do it. As far as i know, no other 14-year-old monkey ever has. Not Asada, not Kim, not Lipinski, not Kwan.

The future? Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. :yes:
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I believe this is some kind of classical ballet position. Dick Button popularized (invented?) this arm position for jumps back in the 40s and 50s. As a commentator he used to criticize skaters' arm positions, saying "your arms are supposed top look like you are hugging a beach ball." :)
I didnt know this was approved by Mr Button, but thank you for replying. Still I think the long set up with her hands as holding a ball always disrupt the flow of the program, and have not much to do with the music she skates to and basically ruin also the choreo. I like to see the jumps out of nowhere, incorporated into the program.Mao who I find the most graceful and balletic doesnt do this btw.
I like Alissa exhibitions a lot actually, but her competitive programs dont work for me. Still with all the season and how it turned out I dont think I would want another lady in GPF instead of her.
 
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bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&hl=en-GB&gl=GB#/watch?v=k_Yy7V-q5jc
Asada at same age as Eliza. Just one example of how growth affects the skater. And IMO far superior then to Eliza now

PS. Winning nationals an international star does not make....and mirai has had her struggles through growth...so..case in point... 14 years old is 14 years old.

I wouldn't say Mao's jumps were superior to Elizaveta's. Mao had a toe axel, no 3salchow, a severe 3 flutz, and her 3flip technique was not great. Presentation wise, skating skills wise yes. But jumps no and its jumps that are most likely to go in puberty.

I'm going to say this as well I find you calling Elizaveta a trained monkey to be highly offensive. She's a human being with feelings emotions, not an animal. Girls her age DO feel pressure look how Elizaveta handled her JGP debut, and Adelina handled her Senior debut. They understand pain, and they especially have feelings. Try telling a freshman in high school, which is Tukt's age that they are trained monkeys, and see how they react. For you especially to disclose a rumor and not thinking about the consquences of said rumor is even more upsetting.

I will say this too all of these skaters most of them started out as junior prodigies.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Did people bother that Mirai went to Olympics at 16? Cause she had not grown yet either.

I have to admit that I thought Mirai was pretty much finish growing at that point. Well I thought she might grow a lil more but not as much as she has. She paints a different picture on the ice for me now. It's not the same.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
so, part of me is conflicted about this because I don't really understand why there are different age rules for GP, Worlds, and Olympics...and wish there weren't. The other part of me says: Go Liz!!! wow. Go for it, do it, keep wowing me!!! loved it!
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I didnt know this was approved by Mr Button, but thank you for replying. Still I think the long set up with her hands as holding a ball always disrupt the flow of the program, and have not much to do with the music she skates to and basically ruin also the choreo.

You can almost see it in the first frame of this (Dick Button's triple loop).

http://skatingdomo.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/buttonloop1.gif

Here is "first arm position" in ballet.

http://dance.about.com/od/ballet/ss/Arm_Positions_2.htm

For jumping in ice skating, I think the idea is that this arm position helps you keep your shoulders parallel to the ice and rotating together, or something like that.

As for jumps that come out of nowhere, I don't think Alissa is capable of doing that. I think she is doing the best she can by long, deliberate approaches. It does adversely affect the choreography, but not as much as a bad under-rotation and fall.
 

crazydreamer

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Watching Elizaveta is like watching Tara Lipinski & Mao Asada when they first hit the senior scene, though without the bad jumping technique of Tara. Such potential, but needs seasoning & maturity, not a natural in that department.

And I hate the extraneous use of her arms; she could learn a thing or two by watching how Alissa uses her arms, less is more. Back ramrod straight, perfect carriage, arms in a balletic attitude position. Not hunched over, mule kick, et al, like some skaters (aka Kanako for one).
I agree re: her arms. This no doubt sounds really nit-picky to anyone not a dancer/dance-lover, but the way Eliza bends her elbows and wrists is horrendous. That alone stops me from enjoying her performances. She has amazing talent, though. I just wish she'd fix that.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
This may sound silly but what determines who makes it to GPF? The British commentator said Alissa "may" make it... How do we know if she does or not?

BTW I think Alissa is getting screwed against Carolina. Alissa is doing 3z and amazing spins... I just don't think when both skaters are "on," that Carolina should be beating Alissa.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I agree re: her arms. This no doubt sounds really nit-picky to anyone not a dancer/dance-lover, but the way Eliza bends her elbows and wrists is horrendous. That alone stops me from enjoying her performances. She has amazing talent, though. I just wish she'd fix that.

Uhh there are more than ONE type of skating and style you know.

She is doing Besame Mucho, a spanish/latin program, and here are some arm movements for Flamenco dance form (as her costume implies)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W6BZl8CcfA

I on the other hand would love Alissa doing a Latin program like this and hopefully finally let her hair down instead of sticking to the same old routine and style.

Less is more only if you have more in the first place, and i have yet to see more from Alissa. (As lovely as she is already)


This may sound silly but what determines who makes it to GPF? The British commentator said Alissa "may" make it... How do we know if she does or not?

BTW I think Alissa is getting screwed against Carolina. Alissa is doing 3z and amazing spins... I just don't think when both skaters are "on," that Carolina should be beating Alissa.

People are surprised by this? She is Carolina :rolleye:
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
This may sound silly but what determines who makes it to GPF? The British commentator said Alissa "may" make it... How do we know if she does or not?

BTW I think Alissa is getting screwed against Carolina. Alissa is doing 3z and amazing spins... I just don't think when both skaters are "on," that Carolina should be beating Alissa.

Well there is still one more competition, but in general a 1st and a 3rd gets you into the GPF.

Here's the breakdown so far:

Liza 30
Carolina 28
Akiko 28
Alissa 26
Mirai 20
Ashley 20
____________
Alena 20

Mao (13) and Adelina (11) are to skate next week. Mao can get in with a gold (28) silver (26) or bronze (24). Fourth is a possiblity too depending on how others place. (22). Adelina will get a shot with a podium finish (26 for gold; 24 for silver; 22 for bronze)

Alena is also a factor because she has a bronze. If she wins she will have 26, silver 24, bronze 22.

I would say that Alissa is likely in.
 
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